I may have been wrong about the Taycan
10-27-2021, 10:56 AM
#106
Rennlist Member
Because you have cars costing $80,000-120,000 each but somehow think spending an extra $800 for an extra charger is a valid excuse. You also said the problem with the Taycan is you don't know when it will be charged just when you need it, yet refuse to put it on a charger and complain about having to plug in the car yet think driving to a gas station and fueling up is easier.
Buy an extra charger and plug your cars in, and stop making lame excuses.
Earl Colby Pottinger (BEVs lover)
Buy an extra charger and plug your cars in, and stop making lame excuses.
Earl Colby Pottinger (BEVs lover)
And, FYI, I have one electric car (the Taycan) and two EVSEs for it (18kW Wall Watz and the PMC+).
Try again.
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Derived (11-21-2021)
10-27-2021, 11:14 AM
#107
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Charge the car per your use / needs.
When I was driving my Tesla 90-160 miles / day, I charged it to 80% every night. Switched jobs, 15 miles / day. I charge it 1-2 x per week. No need for any more. The battery likes to be in the middle of the pack, so I wouldn't want to go from 80-72% every day. As Whoopsy said, you don't top up your fuel tank unless you need it. Same with an EV.
How did we get down this rabbit hole anyway?
When I was driving my Tesla 90-160 miles / day, I charged it to 80% every night. Switched jobs, 15 miles / day. I charge it 1-2 x per week. No need for any more. The battery likes to be in the middle of the pack, so I wouldn't want to go from 80-72% every day. As Whoopsy said, you don't top up your fuel tank unless you need it. Same with an EV.
How did we get down this rabbit hole anyway?
10-27-2021, 12:32 PM
#108
Rennlist Member
Charge the car per your use / needs.
When I was driving my Tesla 90-160 miles / day, I charged it to 80% every night. Switched jobs, 15 miles / day. I charge it 1-2 x per week. No need for any more. The battery likes to be in the middle of the pack, so I wouldn't want to go from 80-72% every day. As Whoopsy said, you don't top up your fuel tank unless you need it. Same with an EV.
How did we get down this rabbit hole anyway?
When I was driving my Tesla 90-160 miles / day, I charged it to 80% every night. Switched jobs, 15 miles / day. I charge it 1-2 x per week. No need for any more. The battery likes to be in the middle of the pack, so I wouldn't want to go from 80-72% every day. As Whoopsy said, you don't top up your fuel tank unless you need it. Same with an EV.
How did we get down this rabbit hole anyway?
But they forgot about how good modern EVs' range are, they are just like normal cars, and can be driven and treated like a normal car. Gone are the days of the 100km range Leaf or something where one really needed to charge them every night just to have an acceptable range the next day.
At the same time, they wanted to emphasize 'dinosaurs' like me refusing to change and adapt to the new EV lifestyle. Weird, as every auto maker, be it GM, Porsche, Tesla, etc, are all making their EVs more and more like normal cars, there is no need to 'adapt' to the EVs anymore. It is them that got left behind in time. Current crop of EVs drives like a normal car, handles like a normal car, range is like a normal car, they are just one of many CARS on the road. Heck, even fast chargers are popping up quickly that travel with an EV is almost like in a normal car, almost. The only thing different would be a need to some some time planning first if one wants to do a long trip. But that's not unlike in the old days before GPS, where we need to open a big map and map out what roads to use to go from point A to point B. Eventually that 'planning' phase will be history once the infrastructure caught up.
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10-27-2021, 05:02 PM
#109
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: West Los Angeles & Truckee, CA
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Can't we all get along. 
Sure there are circumstances or situations where an EV may not work. 800 mile road trips or business trips where you drive >400 miles in 2 days. FYI - I don't own an EV. But for me, i cant think of any daily use case where an EV won't work - and i don't have to run out and get gas. My next DD will 100% be an EV and then that will be that for daily ICE. More than likely a Porsche CT (would consider a LUCID or a Rivian and maybe something Tesla if their higher end model gets more exciting / different). I will still keep something ICE for fun or the occasional 500 mile road trip to Tahoe.
Sure there are circumstances or situations where an EV may not work. 800 mile road trips or business trips where you drive >400 miles in 2 days. FYI - I don't own an EV. But for me, i cant think of any daily use case where an EV won't work - and i don't have to run out and get gas. My next DD will 100% be an EV and then that will be that for daily ICE. More than likely a Porsche CT (would consider a LUCID or a Rivian and maybe something Tesla if their higher end model gets more exciting / different). I will still keep something ICE for fun or the occasional 500 mile road trip to Tahoe.
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10-28-2021, 05:44 PM
#110
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I never try to tell people EV is for everyone. But I also tell people that it fits more use cases than most people are willing to give it credit for.
Double edged sword. You don't want to argue too hard, or you'll find yourself in a use case that doesn't match it.
Double edged sword. You don't want to argue too hard, or you'll find yourself in a use case that doesn't match it.
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daveo4porsche (10-29-2021)
10-31-2021, 08:01 AM
#111
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I strongly disagree with this comment. there is no reason that you cannot take your EV on any trip at the spur of the moment. even if you are starting at a low SOC you more than likely can make it to a L3 charger to fill the car and get going at any time. most people who are able to charge at home keep their car charged to 80%+
10-31-2021, 08:02 AM
#112
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
10-31-2021, 08:17 AM
#113
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
My phone last me pretty much the whole day, takes it off the charger at 6am, put it back on around bed time. If I use it more and is dow not say 30% charge by early afternoon, I plug it in for a top up. Pleas don't tell me you the ones who keep topping off your phone at 90% charge?
My MacBook Pro's battery last 14hrs, why bother to keep it tethered to the wall? When it's down to an hour or 2 left I will plug it in. You keep topping up your laptop too?
My EVs have 3-400km of range, why bother to keep topping it off after some tens of km? If I only use it for school runs, even the e-Tron's shorter range will last 3 weeks of school runs. 3% charge fro a round trip in the morning, 3% charge for a round trip in the afternoon for pickup, 15 school days.
And yes, I do use my cars until the lights comes on before filling up. Unless I see a gas station having a sale and noticeably cheaper than others. I don't do daily 3 litres top up at gas stations. It's a complete waste of time.
The only car I literally plug in every day to charge is my Panamera turbo S. The small hybrid battery last perhaps 35km, I mostly used it up every day so I keep charging that one car.
One last thing, did you know lithium batteries does't like doing short cycles? You degrade the batteries faster that way. Lithium batteries are happiest when they are ~50% SoC. If you are keeping your car fully charged every night, you are just damaging the batteries.
My MacBook Pro's battery last 14hrs, why bother to keep it tethered to the wall? When it's down to an hour or 2 left I will plug it in. You keep topping up your laptop too?
My EVs have 3-400km of range, why bother to keep topping it off after some tens of km? If I only use it for school runs, even the e-Tron's shorter range will last 3 weeks of school runs. 3% charge fro a round trip in the morning, 3% charge for a round trip in the afternoon for pickup, 15 school days.
And yes, I do use my cars until the lights comes on before filling up. Unless I see a gas station having a sale and noticeably cheaper than others. I don't do daily 3 litres top up at gas stations. It's a complete waste of time.
The only car I literally plug in every day to charge is my Panamera turbo S. The small hybrid battery last perhaps 35km, I mostly used it up every day so I keep charging that one car.
One last thing, did you know lithium batteries does't like doing short cycles? You degrade the batteries faster that way. Lithium batteries are happiest when they are ~50% SoC. If you are keeping your car fully charged every night, you are just damaging the batteries.
11-04-2021, 07:30 AM
#114
The quote needs Porsche's comment as well. Without it, hard to see if this is translatable...
Based on phone experience though, I think it doesnt matter (to me) which way you charge it. I just charge when I want to I change my phone every 2-3 years (by passing it down to family member who uses it another 2-3, and it is Iphones only). I think most people will do same in behaviour. Following a schedule in this is not in poeple's nature (unless you are some engineer who has an excel for everything, this is not 99% people).
Last edited by pascalemod; 11-04-2021 at 07:36 AM.
11-04-2021, 02:16 PM
#115
Rennlist Member
Weird that what he says sometimes doesn't line up with reality.
Honestly, doesn't Tesla advice people to keep their SoC around 80% unless they planned on doing a long drive and needed 100%?
So what's the difference between keeping the car off the plug until needed vs plugging it in but only keeping the SoC at 80%? You aren't topping up the cat to 100% every night.
Lithium batteries simply doesn't like to be kept at full charge, period.
If a car is left alone for a long time, then yes, keeping it plugged in and let the electronics adjust the charge level make sense. I keep my 918 the same way, the controller let the battery go up and down in SoC to 'exercise' it. Drawing power from the wall when needed.
But for daily use EVs, there is no valid reason to keep them plugged in every night, just because. Unless of course you needed the full capacity every day.
Last edited by Whoopsy; 11-04-2021 at 02:26 PM.
11-04-2021, 02:25 PM
#116
The responses were to the people arguing that EVs are a bad choice because they [insert extreme example where EV's are highly inconvenient, that applies in maybe 1 percent of the use cases, here] using logic such as [insert ridiculous assumption that's easily proven incorrect here].
11-04-2021, 05:27 PM
#117
Rennlist Member
Who said that?
The responses were to the people arguing that EVs are a bad choice because they [[b]insert extreme example where EV's are highly inconvenient, that applies in maybe 1 percent of the use cases, here] using logic such as [[b]insert ridiculous assumption that's easily proven incorrect here].
The responses were to the people arguing that EVs are a bad choice because they [[b]insert extreme example where EV's are highly inconvenient, that applies in maybe 1 percent of the use cases, here] using logic such as [[b]insert ridiculous assumption that's easily proven incorrect here].
11-04-2021, 07:26 PM
#118
The US Energy Administration's 2021 Annual Energy Outlook says in 2050 79% of vehicles sold will be ICE.
Seems as good a place to put this as any. Apparently, EV use isn't viewed as convenient as Rennlist proponents.
For me, all I have to say is....-10F. Happens every year.
Seems as good a place to put this as any. Apparently, EV use isn't viewed as convenient as Rennlist proponents.
For me, all I have to say is....-10F. Happens every year.
Last edited by stever996; 11-04-2021 at 07:27 PM. Reason: spelling
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Derived (11-21-2021)
11-04-2021, 07:42 PM
#119
Rennlist Member
The US Energy Administration's 2021 Annual Energy Outlook says in 2050 79% of vehicles sold will be ICE.
Seems as good a place to put this as any. Apparently, EV use isn't viewed as convenient as Rennlist proponents.
For me, all I have to say is....-10F. Happens every year.
Seems as good a place to put this as any. Apparently, EV use isn't viewed as convenient as Rennlist proponents.
For me, all I have to say is....-10F. Happens every year.
The temperature issue won't matter to those living in the south. Those living in Vegas or Arizona or New Mexico pretty much have all year sunshine and can use solar power to charge up their EVs also.
Government incentives also plays a role. Everyone already paid so much taxes, it's a good thing the government actually gives you back money when buying a car with the tax credit.
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11-04-2021, 08:30 PM
#120
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
He also says you will get a 35k Model 3, the Speedster what, last year? Cybertruck this year? Semi this year also?
Weird that what he says sometimes doesn't line up with reality.
Honestly, doesn't Tesla advice people to keep their SoC around 80% unless they planned on doing a long drive and needed 100%?
So what's the difference between keeping the car off the plug until needed vs plugging it in but only keeping the SoC at 80%? You aren't topping up the cat to 100% every night.
Lithium batteries simply doesn't like to be kept at full charge, period.
If a car is left alone for a long time, then yes, keeping it plugged in and let the electronics adjust the charge level make sense. I keep my 918 the same way, the controller let the battery go up and down in SoC to 'exercise' it. Drawing power from the wall when needed.
But for daily use EVs, there is no valid reason to keep them plugged in every night, just because. Unless of course you needed the full capacity every day.
Weird that what he says sometimes doesn't line up with reality.
Honestly, doesn't Tesla advice people to keep their SoC around 80% unless they planned on doing a long drive and needed 100%?
So what's the difference between keeping the car off the plug until needed vs plugging it in but only keeping the SoC at 80%? You aren't topping up the cat to 100% every night.
Lithium batteries simply doesn't like to be kept at full charge, period.
If a car is left alone for a long time, then yes, keeping it plugged in and let the electronics adjust the charge level make sense. I keep my 918 the same way, the controller let the battery go up and down in SoC to 'exercise' it. Drawing power from the wall when needed.
But for daily use EVs, there is no valid reason to keep them plugged in every night, just because. Unless of course you needed the full capacity every day.