Archimedes

Currently there are more Tesla superchargers per Tesla on the road in the US than there are gas pumps per ICE car on the road. And the latter are declining every year. Bye bye dodo birds.

And again you ignore the fact that you have to go to a gas station EVERY time you need to refuel, whereas an EV owner rarely has to visit a charging station.

Visceral

As a retired 10-Q reader, I've always been fascinated by the insanity of the Tesla income statement and balance sheet. Unfortunately Elon can't book hubris. His or his fans.

That's a GT4 in your avatar. Surely it's for sale?

kayjh

What are you studying?

whiz944

Elon tweeted that Hertz is paying full retail price - same as you or I would. Though doing the grade school math, it seems that Hertz got the price as of a few weeks ago. Tesla raised the price a couple thou since then. Would make sense since a deal this big must have been underway for months before its announcement. Hertz even had multiple professionally made TV ads with Tom Brady ready for yesterday.

The cars themselves are standard SR+ models - with the lower cost/lower energy density LFP battery chemistry that Tesla has been phasing in to all its SR cars. In the trade-off between LFP and NCA, it is actually a good move from a technical point of view as well. You can charge LFP to 100% without worry of damaging the cells. So will be more bulletproof to the average rental car customer. And LFP has a much greater cycle life than NCA. Combined with the vastly reduced maintenance requirements of EV means Hertz might keep the cars in their fleet longer than they would with ICE cars. It will be fun to watch it play out.

XLR82XS

Excessive DC charging will degrade the battery more quickly than 240 AC charging. All those rentals WILL be supercharged a lot. The way people treat rentals I don't think the maintenance costs will be on par with a private owned vehicle. With the market being flooded with Model 3s - it will be interesting to see how little a 5-8 year old Model 3 will be worth in the second hand market.

Visceral

Companies like Hertz depreciate assets like the rental cars quite quickly and I doubt they'd plan on keeping any car past 3 years.... maaaaybe 5.

https://findingspress.org/article/21...e-battery-life has some good numbers around chemistry (LFP or NMC) vs. C-rate of different charging methods. Note that the 800v architecture of the Porsche/Audi allows the current to be half of what 400v Teslas use at a given kW charging rate, so at 270kW charging, the current the battery sees in a Porsche is similar to what Teslas see at 135kW. Either way, Hertz will be done with the car long before they degrade the batteries near 80% of range. All manufacturers have significant work into the charging curve that minimizes time at the same time as damage.

Tesla does appear to use more of the battery than other manufacturers in order to increase range, since their battery architecture is not meaningfully different. This also has a long-term degradation effect. While Porsche/Audi/VW is more conservative with usable range, I've been surprised at how conservative all the makers are with their BMS settings.

Whoopsy

"Full retail' is pretty ambiguous and misleading.

When my friend did his fleet purchase of Ford pickups, he paid 'full retail' on fleet price. Not quite 100,000 cars, but 1500 pickups. Every fleet customer has their own different 'fleet retail price' tailored to the order.

Tesla has also been raising price regularly, so if the deal was consummated months ago, or quarters ago, they could have locked in a much lower price than what is retail street customer is paying for at MSRP.

MSRP is just one of many definition of 'retail price'. For someone paying 50k ADM on a GT3, that total is their 'retail price'. Same deal with someone getting 20k off a Panamera.

whiz944

From an individual cell's perspective, the voltage and current is the same between a pack configured for 400V or 800V. Just a matter of how many cells are wired in a series string vs how many of those strings are wired in parallel.

Archimedes

I do and will with my Taycan. Which will be easy because it will sit on my charger at home, ready every morning with a full charge. Is that a challenge for you? To plug the car in?

jhenson29

Stations per car cannot, on it’s own, be a metric for “massive”.

If it were, a company with a single car and single charger would have “a station for every car!” and would far exceed Tesla’s super charger ratio. And would in no way be “massive”.

And yes, other than your starting charge, I’m ignoring charging at home. Unless you care to explain how you charge at home on a road trip when you are not at home.

Whoopsy

Actually yes it is.

4 cars sharing 2 chargers. Actually more like 3 sharing 1 as the 918 gets it's own.

The other 3 needs to learn to share, they can't just hog the charger, there is no entitlement here in this household. Cars needs to move and re-parked to get the the charger.

With such a big range, there is no need to keep topping off the EVs in the first place 🤷🏻‍♂️

Archimedes

Do you realize how stupid your objection sounds when you literally own 4 EVs and a 918?

You guys are making 2015 objections in 2021 that are just laughable extreme examples that have no bearing on the reality of EV ownership for most people. You should probably all go back to sticking your heads in the sand so you don’t have to face the reality of the future.

Whoopsy

Taycan has a 400+km range, why am I charging it every 40km?

What's the difference between charging from 10% to 100% vs 90% to 100%? It's not like when you got home you plug it in at 90%, you go back outside and unplug the car 67 minutes later cause it's at 100%. You still unplug it in the morning, just like I do if I plug it in the night before, at 10% SoC.

EVs are still a CAR. You drive it like a normal car. I don't see you keep topping off your gas tank every day, why are you topping off the EV every day?

Do you drive differently on asphalt road vs concrete road? They are just different but still a road.

jhenson29

How is current data “arguments from 2015”?

And how exactly am I putting my head in the sand? I purchased a Taycan. I love the car. I rave about it on the Taycan forum. There’s just this one obvious area where it’s objectively slower and less convenient than ICE.

earl pottinger

Because you have cars costing $80,000-120,000 each but somehow think spending an extra $800 for an extra charger is a valid excuse. You also said the problem with the Taycan is you don't know when it will be charged just when you need it, yet refuse to put it on a charger and complain about having to plug in the car yet think driving to a gas station and fueling up is easier.

Buy an extra charger and plug your cars in, and stop making lame excuses.

Earl Colby Pottinger (BEVs lover)