On the other hand I am always surprised at the number of Provincial Parks that are already BEV ready here. I go on a road trip here in Ontario/Quebec, arrive at a park I have never seen before and there is a charging location (2 or 4 stalls) already on site. I would not be surprised to find the European drivers see this more often too.

Earl Colby Pottinger (BEVs lover)

 

I'm definitely not disagreeing that there are use cases where they make sense as I stated. I have one that exists for me that I didn't mention. We have a house in Mexico and I have an ICE vehicle there. If I want to go anywhere that isn't the immediate are of my house I can't be sure that I can change it. Heck, if I go too far, I'm not always sure that a gas station is going to be readily available. I'm just saying that a lot of the arguments I see here make little sense to me. Even if you are an occasional road trip person the amount of time saved day to day over the course of the year will be so much that it makes the extra time spent on those road trips irrelevant for me. Dave's numbers may or may not align with what others see but I almost don't think it is relevant for 95%+ of all people.

 

If you ever do a 1500km road trip, need to look for charging station and wait, may have to split one-day driving into two and have to book hotel in the middle of nowhere - “saving a few minutes everyday” won’t make you feel any better.

Filling the gas once a week isn’t bad: takes 5 mins on a day when I am in no rush.

I get it, different use case. But have to point out the few minutes you save everyday doesn’t mean you have few more hours to spare elsewhere.

When I tried a Tesla, they give me the “time saving” talk, just nonsense to me.

 

I guess. It isn't 5 min to me though. Going to a gas station is universally a PITA and I cannot ever recall it being 5 min or less because there's never been a scenario when I went where I didn't have to. It is a miracle that I've never run out of gas. Also there's no scenario where I went that I wasn't in a rush. That's not a thing for me and it is true with the car I mentioned in MX as well. Always a PITA. Always going out of the way with no benefit. The only time I ever would be in the "no rush". mindset is if I were on a road trip. Never caring about having to get gas really adds up to me. It is much the same way I view extended warranties. I have never, not even once, bought one. This has saved me thousands of dollars. Has to be close to be 6 figures+ now but I've never added it up. One time it bit me and I basically had to replace an item in full that cost $4k. I didn't love having to do it but I looked at it pragmatically, the amount I've saved over time is so much more than that money that I'm getting a great deal. Even if it sucked in the moment that doesn't make it less true. This is no different.

Again, I'm willing to concede that some people view it different. I just continue to believe that there are very few of them as I personally know zero. I'll go ahead and mark you as one. You can go ahead and mark me as someone that views going to a gas station as a PITA and that views an extremely rare wait or an extra day on a theoretical road trip a non-factor. And there's a 100% chance I'd plan any roadtrip in a way that wouldn't require me to stay an extra day in a hotel but if I had to, eh, no big deal since any road trip I make is going to mean that I have spare time anyway.

 

Yeah, this is the deal breaker for me. We do a trip from Houston to Colorado often, and we're VERY efficient at stops (even with kids). I did the math and doing it in an EV (even a LR Tesla) would mean instead of getting there at Lunch on Day 2, we'd struggle to get there at dinner. Both because of the charging time and having to alter the route. When you're only going away for a week, two extra half days of travel is a full day of vacation lost. Especially when you've already committed to taking so much time driving.

 

I think there are a number of people here who don’t understand the meaning of the term ‘trade off’, and/or incorrectly project their values and preferences on the masses. On top of that they forget that most families will initially go EV with one car and stay ICE with another, so they’ll have an option for each current use case.

 

Take a look at the US Energy Admin's Annual Energy Outlook 2021> Chart Library> page 35(of 56). It shows a surprising continuing reliance on ICE, though the '79%' figure must be calculated elsewhere.

 

I just drove 2400+ miles (3800+KM) in my Model 3 Performance.

Did it take longer than it would have in an ICE? Yep.

Do I care? Nope.

That will be the one time I ever do that drive, so those few extra hours aren't significant to me. The time I save never needing to go to a gas station the other 99% of my driving time is well worth the extra time on the road trip.

Now, if one regularly (multiple times a year) drives those distances, THEN I could see the argument against an EV. Few people do that though, so suggesting that this is a reason to reject an EV out of hand misses the forest for the trees for most people.

Auto-steer was engaged for >70% of those miles, which truly does make a huge difference in fatigue.

 

I for one appreciate taking breaks every 2.5 to 3 hours when the car needs to charge. I can relieve myself, get a bite to eat, stretch my legs a bit and turn my mind away from being on constant driving alert.
my driving NJ to FLA days are long gone. so those 30 minute charge breaks are for me a good thing.
YMMV

 

I think this is a very important point that many people miss. And if one retains a vehicle with an ICE in it for road trips, having an EV for driving within the charge range of home on a daily basis makes all the sense in the world.

Glad that you're still among the living. I personally would never use any auto-steer feature in any car. ACC, sure, but steering will always be by me; I don't trust any software to steer properly with all the complicated messes on our roadways.

 

LOL - that’s cool.

Wide-open interstates are perfect roads for auto-steer, and that’s where I was ~85% of those miles. My car’s auto-steer works quite well and reliably, maintaining the center of lane with few issues.

 

innodrive. tesla's AP and other similar systems also work great when bogged down in stop and go traffic.

I have driven thousands of miles with the tesla AP system, a few hundred on innodrive and while tesla's system is superior the innodrive works almost as good.

 

I did a few hundred km on a rented Taycan with InnoDrive and thought it did a pretty good job at staying centred in the lane even though curves. In cases where lane markings were missing or unclear, the system did get a bit confused but that’s why it forces you to keep hands on the steering wheel. It did a good job of staying centred while allowing me to nudge it to one side of a lane when I wanted. Essentially I treated it as if I were still steering, but I didn’t need to be hyper focused on staying centred in the lane, just watching traffic ahead and making sure the car isn’t doing anything dumb. Overall, I found it to be less tiring than fully manual steering over long drives.

 

You must have never used the system.

Exactly. I actually trust Auto Steer in the Tesla much more than the Active Cruise portion. Last time I used Porsche's Active Cruise it was WAY smoother than that in the Tesla. The Auto Steer system is excellent in keeping lanes on the highway.

 

Today - I woke up and decided to go on a spontaneous 2,000 mile road trip - the first time in my whole life I was going to do such a thing. but as I was about to get in the car, I spontaneously decided it wasn't a good idea as I hadn't told my wife or my kids or the office or my doctor, so I spontaneously went to Starbucks instead and came home with a Latte before she woke up. I was just thinking that if I had my Taycan - I wouldnt have been able to do the trip very conveniently anyways. Phew - close call - All's well that ends well. Just had to share.