David Watts

Yeah, gees I wonder why NONE of the journalist that have been able to test the Taycan have done side by side runs with a Model S or Model 3. Must be an coincidence, right? EPA is the first.

RonF

Huh? The first Tesla Model S available in 2012 had 265 mile range. That was revolutionary at the time of course but shouldn't Porsche compete with the industry leader instead of those who make inexpensive urban commuters and tell us it's OK (apologia to the AT&T commercial).

They'd be frowned upon if not worse by Porsche if they publish that. That's how those "reviews" work.

destaccado

An appliance with no feeling? Looks exactly like the Taycan minus the first couple days where the stoplight acceleration is still exciting.

Let me know when it drives itself so I can sit on my laptop and debate on Rennlist how much more depreciation this 201 EPA rating is going to lead to for early Taycan adopters.

whiz944

Have you ever driven a Model 3?

Well, the thing that saves the Taycan is the charging speed. Another comparison is with the Jag I-Pace. Almost the same two stops as the Taycan, but ABRP estimates 1 hour 12 mins of charging time. Jag only supports a little over 100 kW max charging rate.

For my usage, road trip capability is far far more important than 'Ring times.

David Watts

Well no. The Tesla could drive you there too. Your kids like hanging out in Walmart parking lots? I’ll take less time charging at a nicer supercharger any day.

AlexCeres

have you even driven a tesla for more than 10 minutes ? The model S handling is poor and the model 3 is meh. It drives like an American muscle car.

AlexCeres

yes, a lot. It's handling and braking aren't even in the same league as BMW let alone Porsche.

Needsdecaf

<can't believe I'm doing this, lol>

I'm going to channel Groundhog and say "let's keep this on topic". Let's talk about the Taycan and not turn this into a Taycan vs. Tesla thing.

<ok, that was weird>

Now, let's focus on Porsche's emergency management: The AMCI Test I'm going to make an assumption and say that AMCI is a reputable company and that their testing protocol is legit. I have done zero research on this company and have not even Googled their website, but I'm going to trust that after dieselgate, Porsche's not going to hire some shady company to flub the numbers. That's just insane, and they're not that insane. So let's operate on the premise that somehow, a Taycan Turbo with an EPA rating that is good for 201 miles was able to travel 275 miles in a mixed city / highway test and 288 miles in a city only test. Now I'm going to throw out the 288 miles in the city, since that's an extreme case (hypermiling if you will) as the city maximizes regen, minimizes aero losses, and also because the car was run in range mode with the A/C off, which is almost cheating. The mixed use test used Normal mode with Regen in Auto and the A/C in Eco. So just how in the sam hell do we get from 201 miles to 275 miles? THAT is the question. Because that's like saying (forgive me Groundhog I'm going to say the T word here) that my Tesla, which is EPA rated for 310 miles, should somehow be able to get 424 miles of range in AMCI's mixed conditions driving test. I can tell you right now....that isn't happening.

So why is the EPA test so hard on the Taycan vs. the Tesla? By looking at just the Taycan, we've eliminated all physical variables. AMCI said they used a normal Taycan with 20" wheels, 245/285. So a normal car. That means it should be the same car physically as the one going through the EPA test. No cheater wheels, skinny tires, taped up openings. So how is the car beating it's EPA range by nearly 37%? The answer has to be that something in the EPA test does not favor the driving mode setup of the Taycan. The EPA test protocol follows SAE J1634 May 1993 Recommended Practice, which I cannot find a copy of online without purchasing. Perhaps someone more internet savvy than I could find it. So I have no inkling what that is. But I do know that the EPA testing dictates what modes the car can be in, which may have something to do with it. It was stated above that the EPA testing uses a dyno which changes regen from real world, but again, if that were the case, the Tesla should similarly be able to beat it's EPA rating. But I don't know of any Tesla users beating the EPA rating by 37%.

I strongly suspect that Porsche's lack of off-throttle regen is what's really killing them. The EPA test does a lot of lift and coast, and also a lot of accelerate and hold, and caps deceleration rates at a certain amount. Perhaps these are artificially low, and that by putting the Taycan in auto regen mode and driving more "normally" you get a lot more regen? I am not sure. But something is amiss here.

Needsdecaf

Handling is easily better than any non-M 3 series. EASILY. Braking, the Model 3 non-performance brakes are weak.

But let's keep on topic here.

whiz944

Alright - I'll watch myself...

Yeah - but... GM and lots of others have blended regen to various degrees on the brake pedal. And they track EPA numbers fairly closely...

Alan Smithee

Porsche could have made a long-range EV if it wanted to. Newsflash, folks: Long range was not a priority. High performance and quick charging were priorities.

I am quite sure Porsche focus-grouped buyers of $100-200k sedans and determined they have other vehicles for hauling kids across the state to Disneyland, and that they don't typically drive anywhere near 200 miles a day commuting and/or running errands...but that they expect performance to beat every other premium/luxury sedan on a canyon road or racetrack while feeling like a Porsche.

Bob Roberts

good to know. what is the specific methodology they use for EVs?

destaccado

I just don't think the Taycan is anything to write home about once the fun of the acceleration wears off either. At least when I get board with the Tesla I can play with the autopilot and the Tesla arcade features after an investment of about what I expect the Taycan to depreciate in a year (Turbo) or two (4S)

Needsdecaf

This drum keeps getting beat but it doesn't hold water, to mix metaphors. An EPA rated range is usually not so easy to achieve. You have additional issues when driving in the rain, and at high speed. Plus, you can't just charge anywhere in 5 minutes, like you can fill gas in an ICE car. And surprise, I own a Porsche that I've taken on a 2,500 mile trip....FIVE TIMES.

Range is king and a low EPA rating IS a big deal. Look at the Audi Etron. It's getting hammered now. I know that this is hard to understand if you're not involved in the EV world, but it's not the same as with an ICE car.

Needsdecaf

I quoted it above, but I can't seem to find it except for behind a paywall.