n4v4nod

With the debut of the GTS and the recent news of Porsche developing a turbo flat four able to produce 400hp I wonder if the media has it wrong? What if the 4 pot is actually a Ultra Light Performance Spyder and R, instead of the entry level model the media is publicizing? This would make it Porsche's lightest model as was the original. What's everyone's thought on this idea?

Chris from Cali

I'm hoping for the GTS upgrade but without all the leather stuff... I'm also holding out hope that Sport Buckets make a return. If they follow the formula of the 987.2 R, I'll definitely buy a 981 R (color-matched interior, sport buckets, radio and A/C delete).

Alan Smithee

I posted around here a while ago that I thought a torquey turbo-4 would allow the 981 to have significantly better real performance, while still having less horsepower and a lower cylinder count than the base Carrera for marketing purposes.

Alan Smithee

...and welcome back Donavan!

Z356

Welcome back to our forum Donavan!

My own thoughts, for what they are worth:

1) It's not the media, it's the 'loud mouths' at Porsche AG! And the biggest mouth there is of the CEO Matthias Müller:

http://jalopnik.com/next-porsche-box...ium=socialflow

But a word of caution, Matthias Müller gets more things wrong that right at critical times. He told the press that the next gt3 (the now current 991) would be a manual. He thinks that ALL Targas have historically had that logo on the rear deck-lid of the models. He is a VW 'suit' that has failed to impress many of us...yet his CEO contract was recently renewed for another 5 years. So the key people at VW and Porsche Automobil Holding SE seem to love him!

2) A Cayman or Boxster will get 400 hp when the 991 gets 500! You know the drill. Porsche intentionally keeps the power and suspension (especially rear components) less than optimal in order to maintain the traditional pecking order of the 911 over its younger sibling.

3) So who knows what Matthias is really talking about. For all we know, he got the 960 engine program (which is a Turbo-charged unit) confused with the Cayman/Boxster since they are both mid-engine chassis!

4) The next 'Big Thing' at Porsche will be the 960. To have a super light weight (carbon chassis) Boxster/Cayman with 400 hp will take some oxygen & the glow of the Klieg lights away from that NEW mid-engined chassis they plan to introduce shortly! Keep that in mind...the 960 is their 'Great White Hope' and PAG will not do anything to detract from it's success!

https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...m-porsche.html

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

PS What are you driving these days?


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maomao911

I honestly don't see the 960 happening. Too many competing products in the VW group, the Huracan, R8, potential new Audi Quattro super car, super sport versions of Bentleys (people do cross shop these cars in the new markets). Porsche's own turbo S that is now over $200k.

The only way for the 960 to make sense is if it's a hyper car in the class of Ferrari F12 and Lambo Aventator. Still not much choice in this space where as the entry level exotics are pretty crowded already. If it's priced at 300k with real motorsport heritage built-in, i.e. a GTE racer using the same basic engine and chassis, I will be writing a check.

Z356

Then get your checkbook ready!

The 960 will be aimed squarely to compete with the successor of the current 458 Italia. It's the FeFi, make no mistake about it! A lot of the development work is already done on it - something called the 918 Spyder. Every time I see a deep-pocket deposit holder on the 918, I feel like going up & kissing them! I am so grateful for their generous support in their subsidy (albeit unwittingly via what they are being charged for the 918) of the 960 project! God bless these nice, rich folks...plus all the Macan & Cayenne 'Soccer Moms' too! To paraphrase Hillary: It takes an affluent village to raise baby 960 & allow him to grow up technologically strong to become next 'big thing' at Porsche!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

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n4v4nod

Thanks guys! Glad to be back.

Eduardo, Do you think Porsche will debut a 981 Spyder/R? If so when do you think it will debut? Possibly at the end of the 981 lifecycle like the 987 Spyder/R?

hzoenvy33

Seems only logical to boost the last sales of a generation with something special. But to be honest I don't know if it's worth the engineering cost of something "special". But maybe with some parts from different existing cars (981 GTS featuring 987 Spyder) it could be possible.

Z356

Donavan: I am going to concentrate on a possible 981 Spyder, since I have given that model some thought. Because a 981 Cayman R doesn't have the manual top 'issue' of the Spyder model, we could well see such a version in a few years' time. But I want to address the possibility of seeing a 981 Spyder in this particular response to your question.

____________

The short answer: No...I don't expect Porsche will build a .2 981 Spyder as most of us current or ex-Spyder owners imagine or hope this model would turn out to be!
_____________

The long answer (for the few that may care to read on...or have time to burn) to "Will Porsche build a .2 981 Boxster Spyder?" To help answer that question perhaps we need to objectively look at how well the MY2011/2012 Boxster Spyder did back when it was originally for sale by Porsche.

Pros: Near universal positive reviews from automotive press for its handling & unique look! Lightest weight of a Porsche model in modern times. Offered only in a non-PASM sport suspension. A gt3 type interior - sport buckets, alcantara trim, A/C optional, radio optional, door pulls standard, etc. And like the original 356 Speedster, it appealed to the core enthusiast more interested in lightweight & performance at a reasonable cost!

Cons: Manual (two part) top which took time & effort to install...or remove. Although the design was brilliant and saved substantial weight from a critical area (high-center) on the car, it could be considered anachronistic for a convertible in modern times!

I think that Porsche, in retrospect, didn't considered the MY2011/2012 Boxster Spyder a marketing success. We have tracked down the low production numbers and they help us understand why Porsche might feel that is the case:

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...er-spyder.html

Remember this was not a 'Limited Edition' model. Its production numbers depended on total consumer demand from a) customer's direct custom orders b) dealer specs for stock inventory. On either score, the Spyder underperformed in its 'sales'. The direct custom orders of the knowledgeable enthusiasts gave us the specs that today is associated with a very 'desirable' Spyder in the used market:

Sport bucket seats
Manual Transmission
Sport Chrono
Sport Exhaust
Sport Shifter

Unfortunately, not enough enthusiasts got a chance to custom order their Spyders and that is why we see so few specs as above. The reality was, especially in the US, that dealers (not end users) got to spec'ced most Spyders and what we got was the heavier Sport Leather Seats and PDK! You get a sense of what Spyders dealers were ordering from the information gathered in the two threads linked below. They are dated nearly a year apart yet it gives you a pretty interesting picture of how US dealers 'reacted' to the model itself by how they ordered their Spyders:

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...y-is-huge.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...to-the-us.html

Bottom line: The US dealer network basically ignored the 'Speedster' ideal of Porsche's design for this model - basic, manual, sport buckets, lightweight - and instead ordered what they thought their customers wanted - automated comfort. Yet, the Spyder's complex, two-part top could never deliver that part of the equation since it wasn't very 'practical' or 'automatic'. In the end, the US dealers didn't care for the Spyder...and I doubt they want to see a similar version back as a .2 981. For them, the newly introduced GTS is about as 'sporty' a 981 as they would like to see...or have to sell.

The Future: I think that Porsche will build some sort of special 981 Boxster and Cayman towards the end of the .2 run to create additional interest & sales in the model before the next chassis is introduced. I think they will rely in higher HP & Torque from the engine (turbo or not) rather than lightweight components or sharper 'sport suspension'. The 981 already has the additional aluminum panels that the Spyder & R enjoyed. And the sport suspension is already offered on both the regular 981's and the new GTS. To have a radical reduction in weight, they would have to offer once again the manual top of the 987 Spyder or introduced very expensive carbon fiber components elsewhere in the body. I don't think they'll do either.

I do think they'll allow these special models to have (as an option) the new sport bucket seats expected to be introduced in the 991 gt3 RS (918 style). And once again only those private individuals custom ordering their 981's will spec those...not dealers for their stock inventory. Buckets might be one of the few concessions they'll make for these .2 981 'sporty' models at the end of model run. The US dealer network is still not enamored with anything on a 981 or 991 that will make their sales job harder. And nothing makes their sales more difficult, they believe, than the 'sport bucket seats' and an archaic manual top! And PAG & PCNA primary focus is the placate their dealers, whom they think know best their market & customers. The ROW demand for a manual top Spyder is also very limited. Most suffer from climates (e.g. non-Mediterranean Europe) not a suitable for this basic manual top. So I don't see ROW dealers clamoring for such a Spyder model either.

My dos centavos, for what it's worth.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

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GreenLantern

Thanks for the insight, as always, Eduardo.

It's quite unfortunate that this is the case. Hopefully we'll at least get a 981.2 Cayman R.

batty

Thoughtful and I would think largely accurate post, Eduardo.

I still find the top one of my favorite parts about the Spyder and the attendant weight loss makes each drive such a pleasure.

I suppose selfishly, I'm ok with them not making anymore Spyders...

Hopefully hindsight looks more favorably upon this uniquely special Porsche.

n4v4nod

Thanks Eduardo,
I think you are 100% correct… Sucks for us Spyder enthusiasts though. I guess my search for another 987 Spyder will happen in my future. Still situating things post divorce.
I just have to be patient when I start my search… Would love to get my Riviera Blue back… That's a long shot though.

BTW, do you still have your Spyder? <--- Opps… just noticed your sig. Glad you kept it!

Z356

'Past' as in 'gone but missed', 'the late but great', 'dearly departed', 'sayonara mon amour' and 'hasta la vista, baby'

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

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n4v4nod

Flat four????
http://www.carscoops.com/2014/04/doe...pe-engine.html