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Official Porsche Archive Production Figures for the MY2011/MY2012 987 Boxster Spyder!

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Official Porsche Archive Production Figures for the MY2011/MY2012 987 Boxster Spyder!

 
Old 12-23-2012, 03:23 PM
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Z356
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Default Official Porsche Archive Production Figures for the MY2011/MY2012 987 Boxster Spyder!

Over the past few years, we have had some very interesting conversations on this forum regarding the Boxster Spyder, its success or failure as 'seller' for PAG and its total production numbers. I have followed this model with particular interest since the late summer of 2010 and have written several threads (see various links below) that hopefully furthered the discussion on the subject. Recently Rennlist member Only1Buck (Steve) asked me to give him the name of a contact I had in Germany which could shed some light on final Spyder production numbers. Only1Buck got a response from a representative of PAG in Zuffenhausen (I will let him identify the source if he wants to) which claimed that their official archive (Historisches Archiv) records show the following data:

33 Spyders built in Calendar Year 2009
1418 Spyders built in Calendar Year 2010
493 Spyders built in Calendar Year 2011
0 Spyders built in Calendar Year 2012

Only1Buck then asked me yesterday via email "Eduardo, My interpretation of the numbers provided by Dieter would be for model year 2011 there were 1451 cars and for 2012 there were 493. Would you agree with that?"

Because I think this subject needs to be discuss publicly at this forum, let me answer that question here in the hope this subject can be talked about & debated openly:

My answer is: No, I believe MY2012 Spyder production was smaller than 493, perhaps as few as 150 units. Zuffenhausen started producing MY2012 Spyders very early in calendar year 2011 (late March or April of 2011) for reasons never fully explained by PAG. MY2012 production was short-lived and ended in July 2011. In my opinion, total MY2011 Spyders produced were 33 (all of CY2009) + 1418 (all of CY2010) + most of the 493 (first 3/4 months of CY2011). PAG's calendar year 2011 built figures include MY2012 Spyders. Note that MY2012 Spyders have a different code on the 10th position of Vin #. It's a C and not a B. I personally believe most of the MY2012 Spyders came to North America. I was told in the summer of 2011 by someone close to PCNA that only 125 were delivered to US dealers*. Rennlist member Jabbey (John) believes he has been able to identify 141 for US & Canada in the research he has done independently using clever Vin # deciphering methods:

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...roduction.html

Regardless the fact that I loved the Spyder so much that I custom-ordered one in May of 2011, I believe for Porsche this model was a less than a SALES success for them worldwide! Only in the US, where with extremely positive reviews in the enthusiast auto press and also where the more forgiving climates of California & the West made the 'Bimini' top less of a 'deal-breaker', did the Spyder fared OK, although it was never truly appreciated by the dealer network or the typical sales force that unfortunately populate these establishments! I still believe that even in these United States the Spyder did NOT meet sales expectations as set by PAG & PCNA! In this forum we had a very telling discussion on this subject back in September of 2010 when nobody knew for certain the limited nature of Spyder production and we were speculating on how PAG & PCNA was marketing the model:

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...y-is-huge.html

Nevertheless, half of all Spyders produced by PAG from 2009 to 2011 found a home in the US! For Porsche's world markets other than PCNA, the Spyder was NOT a factor in Porsche MY2012 models sales projections. PAG didn't push the Spyder at all with the ROW markets for its limited run of MY2012 production. After terminating the MY2011 production in late March or early April of 2011, PCNA was apparently given a limited allocation of units (less than 150) for MY201. Perhaps (and this is pure speculation on my part) to used up all the pre-ordered Spyder parts they had already subcontracted to in their 'just-in-time' delivery system and Porsche would have had to pay for these parts in any case! That is why, in my opinion, so few MY2012 Spyders were built and why most of them ended up in the US market, where niche models like it (and the 356 Speedster which preceded it) had historically sold best! My dos centavos, for whatever that is worth. For a nostalgic view at where the last MY2012 Spyders ended up going here in the US, please see link below:

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...to-the-us.html

I recently had this public exchange with fellow Rennlister Al Dias on the subject of the Spyder's place in Porsche's history:

Posted by Z356
'But I have yet to meet a former owner that doesn't reminisce about the Spyder ownership experience, regardless how brief, or who fails to get nostalgic just thinking about it! Everyone of them knew this was a special car, a unique driving experience, a memory to treasure! The fact is that historians will probably judge this model as ONE of the most significant Porsches ever created! In time, it might be perceived as 'special' as the classic 356 Speedster of the 1950's!"

Posted by ADias
'And then hyperbole has risen. The Spyder is a Boxster variant for fair-weather only, designed as a minimalist lighter-weight Boxster, and at that with a number of controversial design aspects. Some cars were bought with minimal options and those fulfilled the design objectives. However, many others abound with leather everywhere, stereos and other doodads negating the design objective and are generally garage queens. Will those survive and become a classic? I think not. Like many Porsches they will be a footnote among many other Spyders continuing with a 981 variant, and another, and another. I note that several multi-car Porsche collectors I know who purchased the Spyder sold them quickly after they got it (or used it for a summer).'

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...r-value-5.html

I don't agree with Al's conclusions. Let me relay this short conversation I had with Dr. Wolfgang Porsche at the 2012 Porsche Parade in Salt Lake City after my 'Crystal Blue' 1970 911E Targa was selected by him & his brother Hans Peter for the coveted 'Judges' Choice' Trophy at the Parade Concours in July of this year! Dr. Porsche asked me what other Porsche I owned. I told him an 'Aqua Blue' MY2012 Spyder. He opened his eyes wide, cracked a big smiled and enthusiastically said 'Me too!'. His 'Carrara White' Spyder resides at his private 'barn' garage at his estate in Zellamsee in Austria. If it is all hyperbole, as Al Diaz claims, at least I am comforted by the fact that there are significant others that have drunk the Kool-Aid too about the 'specialness' of this rare production model!

Saludos,
Eduardo

PS Only1Buck 'Steve' has custom-ordered two Spyders. His first one was a beautiful 'Carrera White / Carrera Red' with the full alcantara package. This one he sold in 2010. He then ordered a gorgeous 'Guards Red / Black' Spyder which he still has! He also owns a very special PTS 1997 'Signal Yellow'/Black 993 Turbo and until recently Steve also had a vintage longhood early 911!

The story of custom ordering my 2012 'Aqua Blue / Carrera Red' Spyder can be found here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...tom-order.html

*****************************************************************

*Here is one of my previous posts on that subject which summarizes research by me & others on the subject of total Spyder Production numbers before we got official confirmation this week from PAG's Historisches Archiv!

From Rennlist's MJones (real name Brian W). Allocated MY2012 Spyders
to US dealers - 125. Emailed to me by him last summer (2011).

From Jabbey (John) - Sales of MY2012 Spyders in US and Canada - 141.

In summary: So these two figures for MY2012 are fairly close. Perhaps the mix is 125 for US dealers and 16 for Canadian dealers. I don't think it includes any sales in Mexico, although that country is part of North America.

-----
From Jabbey (John) over on Planet 9

"Re: Spyder Production Numbers
So an update. Had some free time and analyzed the VIN data. Although the last digits of North American bound VINs are sequential, VINs incorporate a series of patterns on digits left of the year designation, and rolls at each 100 units. By observing the pattern, I was able to fill in the blanks, find the bounds, and validate what's real. So what I found/confirmed:

MY2011
First VIN: WP0CB2A81BS745001
Last VIN: WP0CB2A80BS745751

750 MY2011 units to North America

MY2012
First VIN: WP0CB2A86CS745061
My VIN: XXXXXXXXXXX745195 (only 7 built after mine)
Last VIN: WP0CB2A89CS745202

141 MY2012 units to North America

So, confirmed total for North American Spyders is 891 units.

John"

Here are two explanations of his methodology. I include both so that we don't miss anything that helps explain what he did:

As explained by Jabbey (John) in Rennlist:
"First VIN: WP0CB2A86CS745061
My VIN: XXXXXXXXXXX745195 (only 7 built after mine)
Last VIN: WP0CB2A89CS745202

141 MY2012 units to North America

The runs typically start with XXX1. Knowing that, I did a VIN validation using a variety of web services that validate North American VINs. I also had to figure out how to bump up the 9th digit of the VINs as it's not constant. Only the bump up in the final number "5195...". So that's how I figured out 5061 was the beginning of the MY2012 run. I also had the advantage of knowing about 5202 being right near the end. But I validated that there is no 5203. So, that's how we get the 141 vehicles.

I'll post it again sometime, but for MY2011 there was a comprehensive Excel file created. It has hundreds of MY2011 North American VINs, but not all. I just filled in the gaps, bumping up the VIN number and validating them against the VIN checker sites. Note: Even with a valid VIN sequence, you have to make sure it's really a car. That is, you can put in a VIN for a Spyder and get a false positive hit on things like CARFAX. But, it's easy to cross check it. And, those sites will state "Boxster Spyder", but there will be 0 records. I stopped at the VIN number that brought back a Spyder, and was the last one with vehicle history records on one ore more of the sites."

As explained by Jabbey (John) in Planet 9:

"First, rather than using a simple web search that would have quickly shown me the meaning of the 9th digit in a VIN, I looked at all the historical VIN number data I had from published documents on the Spyder which had hundreds of cars. Essentially, I found the pattern in those numbers and thought this was p-car unique. It's not, but it was fun to mine the data. That digit is just a check-sum value and can be calculated. With that, I was able to construct any VIN and validate it through things like Carfax and Autocheck. So, I found the first MY2012 Spyder VIN that had record hits. Then I went to my VIN knowing it was one of the very last cars built (5195). I bumped up the VINs using the pattern and did the search on Carfax and Autocheck. It ended at 5202. I also know that you and other posted information about these last cars coming into the US and it aligns with those last cars built in July 2011.

For the MY2011, there was pretty good data out there, but I used the same technique. I kept bumping up the VIN with the right technique, and validating against the sites until I got bad results. A bit crude, but I have a high degree of confidence in the number of vehicles for North America. I can't imagine this task was on the top of my wife's Honey-Do list, but it was cool to get closer given that PCNA wasn't going to help me out here."

My note on figures above: We have less confirmation of the MY2011 Spyders for the US and Canada but I accept the 750 figure as very plausible. Hopefully, Jabbey (John) can read this post and fill in on any thing I left out re: his methodology!

------
Over at Pistonheads, two figures have been bandied about UK sales for both MY2011 and MY2012 Spyders. 212 from a source at Porsche UK or 230 according to UK registration figures. But close enough to give you a general idea of the size of the population. Folks seem to think most of the UK cars are MY2011 models.

------
Total World Wide Production of MY2011 and MY2012 Spyders

A) A German employee of PAG at last August's 2011 Quail-based Porsche test drive center confirmed to me in person that total MY2011 & MY2012 combine worldwide production of Spyders was approx. 2000 and not exceeding that number!

B) Over at Pistonheads in England, someone has reported on that website that total worldwide Spyder production was 1883. But that person now can't find the exact source of his information but he claimed came from PAG in Germany.

C) Over at Planet 9, an individual sent a letter/email to PCNA to get production numbers and was told that information was proprietary and would not be released.

"Hello Mr. Mancini,

Thank you for taking the time to email us. Unfortunately, we cannot
provide you with the production details you are requesting. This
information is considered proprietary and is not released.

If you have any questions or concerns you would like to further discuss,
please feel free to contact our Porsche Contact Center at 1-800-Porsche
option 3.

Kind regards,

Beth
The Porsche Contact Center
1-800-PORSCHE
(1-800-767-7243)"

D) I asked an employee of PAG at the Salt Lake City Parade two weeks ago for the information and he said he would try to get it for me. Will confirm if/when that figure is sent to me.
--------
I will let others opine as to what all of these figures means in terms of value and collectability. However, no other recent Porsche series model other than the gt2 RS & the Limited Edition 4.0 gt3 RS have been built in such low production numbers!
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Z356 View Post
.... Dr. Porsche asked me what other Porsche I owned. I told him an 'Aqua Blue' MY2012 Spyder. He opened his eyes wide, cracked a big smiled and enthusiastically said 'Me too!'. His 'Carrara White' Spyder resides at his private 'barn' garage at his estate in Zellamsee in Austria. If it is all hyperbole, as Al Diaz claims, at least I am comforted by the fact that there are significant others that have drunk the Kool-Aid too about the 'specialness' of this rare production model!...
Wolfgang Porsche does not drink the 'Kool-Aid'. He sells it!

P.S. - But I am confused... didn't you sell your Spyder? Wasn't an Aqua Blue Red interior Spyder driven by someone else in Georgia your car, or is it a different one?
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:17 PM
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Eduardo thank you for the update on this. You are right, several MY2011 Spyders were made in early 2011. Mine was one of the last 2011's, it was completed in February 2011.

At this point it doesn't matter what others think regarding the Spyder being a classic, for me it definitely is a classic. The styling harkens back to Porsche's earlier days and some of the special cars that are coveted today and yet it looks modern as well. More importantly the car drives like nothing else, it is the only car I have experienced that feels like it is wired to your brain and body. It has no faults. I feel very lucky to own one.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:21 PM
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+1

well said, nice to be one of the few, one of the chosen

a Spyder owner!

Originally Posted by Marine Blue View Post
Eduardo thank you for the update on this.

At this point it doesn't matter what others think regarding the Spyder being a classic, for me it definitely is a classic. The styling harkens back to Porsche's earlier days and some of the special cars that are coveted today and yet it looks modern as well. More importantly the car drives like nothing else, it is the only car I have experienced that feels like it is wired to your brain and body. It has no faults. I feel very lucky to own one.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:02 PM
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Eduardo: official rennlist librarian

Thanks for posting the info, Ed!
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:34 AM
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IMO, the boxster spyder is a very special car that has several similarities to the 356 speedster.

The spyder looked like no other Porsche.
The spyder had relatively low production numbers.
The spyder had a rudimentary roof.
The spyder was indeed the roadster in the purest form.

In fact the spyder is the modern day 356 speedster. Porsche took an idea back to the basics and created a pure roadster that never before existed in the modern day era of water cooled cars. But lets look at the spyders that actually exist out there in the world and then decide if the history books will be kind enough to the spyder moniker to the bunch of Boxsters that actually exist in the registry. Yes these 1800 or so cars are still Boxster spyders because thats what they were built as and badged as. But they also had everything from heated seats, to air-conditioners, to heavier exhausts bixenons, transmissions, navigation systems, bluetooth and deviated stitching. All that goes against the very essence of the spyder. Yes everyone in a party of 1800 ordered non-fat vanilla yogurt and several of those wanted it on a waffle cone with whipped cream and chocolate chips as topping. So yes they all had the same yogurt but not really.

So will the current crop of spyders be classic some day. Thats the question I have for spyder faithfuls/enthusiasts like Afshin, Eduardo, Steve Colletti, Joe, Alan Smithee et al. In my opinion these over-optioned spyders dilute the spyder moniker much like the hot rodded and replica 356 speedsters that exist.

The real boxster spyders are the ones that are synonymous with a roadster in its purest form. I really missed out ordering this unique vehicle that Porsche engineered and manufactured in this modern era. A car which was best described by Porsche when it said "the more constrained you are ... the more liberated you feel". Unfortunately not too many who ordered this car felt the need to be constrained. And yes there will be a 987 spyder but it will have the same luxurious interior filled with buttons and visual displays that hands everything on a platter plus will it have the simple no frills roof ? I doubt it. Now its too late for me to order the real Boxster spyder and believe me when I say that I have kicked myself several times this past year or so on the opportunity missed.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:04 AM
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I guess I could have done without the radio and A/C on my spyder since I almost never use either, but at the same time I don't mind having it there. It would be kinda cool to have a no A/C or radio spyder though, I have to admit. Very, very few people would appreciate that, though. I know of 2 Cayman Rs here locally that the dealers just can't sell because they don't have A/C.

My big mistake in buying my spyder 2 years ago was buying it on impulse. I didn't know any of you guys back then. Heck, I barely knew anything about Porsche back then. My dealer bamboozled me into thinking that no more spyders were available to order... I felt like the biggest chump in my P77 seats. A happy day it was, when I installed the buckets in my car...
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:45 AM
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Joe thank you for being honest. My first Porsche was also an impulse buy. We've all made mistakes. You know that. Kudos to you for spending the $$$ for the sport bucket seats. The Cayman R being a coupe is a different beast and I can see why those cars sit on the dealers lots. My RS that is strictly used as a road car is unusable in the summer without climate control. My car has radio delete and I have never once missed radio on that particular car.

On the other hand the spyder should most definitely be useable in even the hottest summers without the a/c with just the canvas top on without the weather protector. I instantly feel the A/csap energy out of the car when I switch A/c on in the RS so it's more than the weight. The problem is that the spyder that is true to its spirit often does not work for most owners who want it to work as a daily driver without some sort of compromise .. But the car is all about the compromise one makes and that's what makes it so unique and special in my books. If you had cup holders, audio system, navigation, blue tooth where is the compromise.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by w00tPORSCHE View Post
Joe thank you for being honest. My first Porsche was also an impulse buy. We've all made mistakes. You know that. Kudos to you for spending the $$$ for the sport bucket seats. The Cayman R being a coupe is a different beast and I can see why those cars sit on the dealers lots. My RS that is strictly used as a road car is unusable in the summer without climate control. My car has radio delete and I have never once missed radio on that particular car.

On the other hand the spyder should most definitely be useable in even the hottest summers without the a/c with just the canvas top on without the weather protector. I instantly feel the A/csap energy out of the car when I switch A/c on in the RS so it's more than the weight. The problem is that the spyder that is true to its spirit often does not work for most owners who want it to work as a daily driver without some sort of compromise .. But the car is all about the compromise one makes and that's what makes it so unique and special in my books. If you had cup holders, audio system, navigation, blue tooth where is the compromise.
Oh, it's no secret that I absolutely hated my P77 sport seats. I think everyone here knows about that whole story.

I know what you're getting at, Amar. However, audio/nav/bluetooth and cup holders really don't take way from the car (I know I could have used a cup holder a few times, and nav would have been nice to have when driving to tracks in areas that I'm not familiar with). IMO, P77 seats take away from the experience of the car. For a fanatic, yes, I can see why you would want a spyder spec'ed with nothing. However, there are so few fanatics out there, the only person that would appreciate it.... is you. Which is all that really matters.

btw, I think the a/c sap in power is placebo effect. I think I feel it too, but I've seen people run dynos back to back with a/c on and off, and there's no difference. I still turn off the a/c anyway... lol
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:58 AM
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Joe, I stand corrected on the A/c not change anything from an engine performance standpoint. I still think it will be hard to ignore the fact that too many spyders exist out there that are Boxster S's with a spyder top. So given this quagmire how can one predict the collector status of a spyder when so many indeed were not spyders in the true sense. Eduardo and few others mentioned in this highly informative thread have collected such valuable information but as far as I am concerned these numbers are skewed for reasons I mention above.
History tells us that one of the most desirable collector 356's are the speedsters ie. the spartan variant of the 356, the least practical of the 356 model range. So just because the spyder has low numbers it does not qualify for collector status IMO. The spyder variant of the spyder are far and few. Those most likely are ordered by hard core trackers and may not survive the test of time and even if they do will not be attractive to the collectors of the world. It is a pity because those are IMO the truly collectible spyders.
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:54 AM
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Eduardo. Thanks for the detailed summary..

on rareness.. you did miss out the 911 sport classic and the speedster. Both have characteristics that make them different from run of the mill models. IE sport classic with the double bubble roof( so slight, you have to really look to see it) and who could not see the hump on the speedster... Still, no doubt the spyder is special...
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:51 PM
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Amar you are right, most Spyders have been configured with A/C and Radio and I would bet at least 50 - 60% have been configured with Sport Seats which further pushes the car away from what Porsche intended.

I was very fortunate to be in a position to order my Spyder and I to am guilty of diluting what Porsche intended but I will say that if I had to do it all over again now I would likely order it exactly the same way with exception to adding a short shifter. My reasons for why I ordered what I did:

1. When I get in my Spyder I absolutely love the smell of the leather that hits me when I open the doors. The smell remains evident even with the top off driving down the road. The look of the leather dash, doors and center console really upgrade the interior.

2. The cup holders are handy to keep water bottles within reach when driving longer distances. Driving topless in the sun with the air moving past will quickly dehydrate you. Having water easily accessible when stopped at a light minimizes stops and also keeps the bottles in one place and not rolling around the passenger floor.

3. PSE - I personally like things stock and tend to shy away from modifying my cars. I was fortunate to have heard the stock and PSE exhaust when I test drove the Spyder and having more exhaust noise has a big impact on the top down driving experience. If I didn't have PSE I would definitely want something aftermarket.

4. A/C. Honestly this one is a tough one to justify. With the top down you rarely need A/C and I think I've driven the Spyder four times with the top up. But on a really hot/humid day the A/C can be a help when stopped in traffic or moving at slow speeds. To be honest I usually have mine off and yeah, I think I would be fine without it. I may change my mind when we are in Kansas City and I'm out on a very hot day!

5. Radio - For me it's an absolute must. I love my music and I love listening to music when driving so this for me is a no brainer.

Ok so if you look at what I optioned back into the car I have likely added about 45 Lbs back in. I could easily erase this with the addition of a lithium battery.

Yes it isn't as hard core as a bare bones Spyder focused strictly on driving, I will readily admit that and I'm happy about that. When I was a kid dreaming about the ultimate sports car I wanted a topless experience that would let the sun/stars create an expansive and ever changing roof, exhaust note in the background playing the engines music, a nice stereo to play my favorite tunes, sublime handling allowing extreme corner carving and high g-forces, an interior that feels upscale yet subtle and reliability so I spend more time on the road.

I wouldn't have it any other way. Fortunately many Spyder configurations exist and if we search we can all find what we want or close to it. Again, I was lucky to get an allocation and order exactly what I wanted.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:08 PM
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Thank you for the excellent response. I totally agree that in order for the spyder to work in a one or two car stable one has to move away from the deliberately minimalist interior or spec sheet. I know exactly what you mean about leather, music and cup holders. And short shift is an easy retrofit so why not just do it now. What's holding you back.

You have all educated me so much about spyders this past year it is really unbelievable as to how much I have learnt about this car even without owning one. Plus I have a hard or e-copy of almost every review of the spyder ever published in the USA or UK. IMO, there is no question that even the most optioned spyder will still be a very good car as long as it has the unique top (which luckily all 1800+ spyders would) and sport bucket seats.

Eduardo our spyder historian on Rennlister has accumulated a wealth of information through his contacts with PCNA and there is no question these are rare cars. But again I pose the question to all of you here. This thread was meant to ask the simple question as to whether the spyder will be a collectible given its rare production numbers or whether it will disappear into oblivion in the annals of history.

My answer to that question is very simple. Porsche made this car like no other car in the modern day era (which is what piqued my interest and curiosity). The unmistakable references to their history (like the rudimentary top, side graphics, minimalist interior) exist for a special reason. Unfortunately Spyders that are equipped for daily use with all the options will not evoke the same amount of emotions twenty years from now when compared to those that have no options. I bet a paint to sample spyder with PDK, a/c, radio, heated seats and PCM would be less desirable at RM auctions when compared to a Carrara white spyder with zero options. Ask any 356 speedster owner (unfortunately I know of none) if they would want their cars with anything that would make their cars more useable on a day to day basis or anything that makes it shift faster or smell or sound good.

Yes the spyder is a rare car. Yes it will be a collectible some day. But very few spyders out there will capture that elusive feeling of what the car should be in the minds of true collectors. Most spyders out there are grand tourers in the guise of a spyder. I'm sorry but that's the sad truth.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:23 PM
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Default Dear Amar....

Originally Posted by w00tPORSCHE View Post
In fact the spyder is the modern day 356 speedster. Porsche took an idea back to the basics and created a pure roadster that never before existed in the modern day era of water cooled cars. But lets look at the spyders that actually exist out there in the world and then decide if the history books will be kind enough to the spyder moniker to the bunch of Boxsters that actually exist in the registry. Yes these 1800 or so cars are still Boxster spyders because thats what they were built as and badged as. But they also had everything from heated seats, to air-conditioners, to heavier exhausts bixenons, transmissions, navigation systems, bluetooth and deviated stitching. All that goes against the very essence of the spyder...So will the current crop of spyders be classic some day...In my opinion these over-optioned spyders dilute the spyder moniker much like the hot rodded and replica 356 speedsters that exist.

Originally Posted by w00tPORSCHE View Post
History tells us that one of the most desirable collector 356's are the speedsters ie. the spartan variant of the 356, the least practical of the 356 model range. So just because the spyder has low numbers it does not qualify for collector status IMO. The spyder variant of the spyder are far and few. Those most likely are ordered by hard core trackers and may not survive the test of time and even if they do will not be attractive to the collectors of the world. It is a pity because those are IMO the truly collectible spyders.
Amar, you know I deeply respect you & admire your visceral enthusiasm for the purist 'Porsche' experience. But I want to address certain parts of your postings that I have quoted above.

I spent over 20 years collecting 356's and that is something I know a little bit about. Although the 356 Speedster has attained iconic stature in our car culture and is highly desirable, the fact is that the most expensive Speedsters in the market today are not purist, spartan, plain vanilla examples! The much heavier, less agile & mechanical complex 'Carrera' Speedsters are the most valuable Speedsters today! A base Damen 1957 Speedster with an original Bench Seat (the ultimate absurdity in a sporting roadster which truly represents a 'waffle cone with whipped cream and chocolate chips') might have higher value than a '57 Super Speedster with the ubiquitous bucket seats simply because it's more 'rare'! An original paint black/red '58 with regular vinyl seats set a world record price for a Speedster back in the late 1980's simply because its impeccable low mileage condition and unusual seating option! Any Speedster ordered from factory with the rare Rudge wheels (which added enormous unsprung weight at exactly the wrong place on the vehicle's chassis) will today increased the value of that Speedster perhaps $20K/$50K, simply because so few of these were delivered! Rarity is one of the most important factors in determining value. But it's not the only one. Porsche 356 B Hardtop coupes (essentially 356 cabriolets with welded tops) are fairly rare and not that valuable because consumers never took to them - neither back when they were new nor now 50+ years later!

I am now a detached observer of the Spyder model. I no longer have a horse on this race! Yet I am convinced that this model has a better than fair chance in becoming a collectable in the future than most other modern Porsche models (including the recent variations of the heavier 911 Speedsters). But it will not be because the particular example doesn't have A/C or does have a leather interior! It will be original condition, perceived beauty (e.g. color schemes) and what happens to the future of Porsche cars in an age of increasing complexity (replacement of the lightweight 'sunshield' with a heavier top), technological experiments (e.g. PDCC) and government regulations!

Added to my earlier 'dos centavos' original post, I am now providing up to a nickel's worth of wisdom!

Saludos,
Eduardo
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:36 PM
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I am not a collector and when I get my spyder it will be driven so much that it will no longer be a collectible as those are generally reserved for garage queens. Eduardo your points are well taken. Unlike you, I have very little expertise in evaluating cars that are true collector worthy. But assuming that in thirty five years there are about 100 spyders in all original condition. Would you agree the cars that are more spartan and truer to the ethos of what the spyder stands for would be more desirable and fetch more at RM auctions. None of the RL'ers I know of (Zelamsee, Afshin, Joe, vetman et al) really care if their car will be a collectible as they are having way too much fun in return and they are the lucky few who have the spyders with the right options.
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