Cayman R vs. Boxster Spyder
09-16-2011, 12:53 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Cayman R vs. Boxster Spyder
Hey all, just wanted to let you know we've posted the first chunk of our findings after a week with a Boxster Spyder and a Cayman R online, with free access to all.
http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues...ase-track-test
Some of our findings were very surprising, and quite a bit different than any of us expected.
Enjoy!
pete
http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues...ase-track-test
Some of our findings were very surprising, and quite a bit different than any of us expected.
Enjoy!
pete
09-16-2011, 12:56 PM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Pete I was wondering when you were going to post this!
So is this also going to be published in your magazine for purchase?
So is this also going to be published in your magazine for purchase?
09-16-2011, 01:05 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hey Ashfin,
We're posting Johannes' piece online for free, but this is just one of four components surrounding the Cayman R in the November 2011 issue, which include a main (7 page) road test by Alex Palevsky, a sidebar by me, and a follow story that's outside the box. Of course, there's more than that in the issue, including an early preview of the 991, a couple of cool older 911 hot rods, Chris Harris' Sebring experience, a new idea on how to save M96 engines, and a pretty neat 356 Speedster.
http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/196
Now, if I can just figure out how to get the slow trickle of cool 928s, 924s, 944s, and 968s back into the book, I'll be cooking with gas. Finding ones that we haven't covered but that are worthy — and then actually getting a proper article on them — has remained one of the more difficult challenges of my time here.
Enjoy!
pete
We're posting Johannes' piece online for free, but this is just one of four components surrounding the Cayman R in the November 2011 issue, which include a main (7 page) road test by Alex Palevsky, a sidebar by me, and a follow story that's outside the box. Of course, there's more than that in the issue, including an early preview of the 991, a couple of cool older 911 hot rods, Chris Harris' Sebring experience, a new idea on how to save M96 engines, and a pretty neat 356 Speedster.
http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/196
Now, if I can just figure out how to get the slow trickle of cool 928s, 924s, 944s, and 968s back into the book, I'll be cooking with gas. Finding ones that we haven't covered but that are worthy — and then actually getting a proper article on them — has remained one of the more difficult challenges of my time here.
Enjoy!
pete
09-16-2011, 01:21 PM
#4
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Thanks Pete, I'll definitely pick one up to read the rest of the articles. 
Regarding the article, I just read it while eating my lunch and I was also surprised by the results. But there are a few questions I had which may be answered in another part of the November issue. Specifically you noted that the Spyder was heavier, was it a highly optioned car causing the increase in weight? Also I didn't see anything about the transmission on the Spyder, was it PDK or MT? I know the R was MT.
Are you looking for unique modified 928's/944's etc or something with an interesting history? Have you done anything on the Al Holbert record setting 928 S4?
Regarding the article, I just read it while eating my lunch and I was also surprised by the results. But there are a few questions I had which may be answered in another part of the November issue. Specifically you noted that the Spyder was heavier, was it a highly optioned car causing the increase in weight? Also I didn't see anything about the transmission on the Spyder, was it PDK or MT? I know the R was MT.
Are you looking for unique modified 928's/944's etc or something with an interesting history? Have you done anything on the Al Holbert record setting 928 S4?
09-16-2011, 01:26 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm always after good stories on all kinds of Porsches, and have been a bit frustrated of late by the lack of breadth. Thing is, it's one thing to find the cars and another to get truly good copy and truly good photos. But lately, neither (the finding or the articles) have been happening with enough regularity. I noticed your past rides in another thread and thought it was really cool that you moved from 28s to a Spyder. Very interesting. Anyway, it reminded me about this matter.
That said, a very cool 928 story does appear to be on deck...
pete
09-16-2011, 01:50 PM
#6
Addict
Rennlist Member
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Not just once, but twice: In a great story with black and white photos on the record attempt, and then again in the car's second life.
I'm always after good stories on all kinds of Porsches, and have been a bit frustrated of late by the lack of breadth. Thing is, it's one thing to find the cars and another to get truly good copy and truly good photos. But lately, neither (the finding or the articles) have been happening with enough regularity. I noticed your past rides in another thread and thought it was really cool that you moved from 28s to a Spyder. Very interesting. Anyway, it reminded me about this matter.
That said, a very cool 928 story does appear to be on deck...
pete
I'm always after good stories on all kinds of Porsches, and have been a bit frustrated of late by the lack of breadth. Thing is, it's one thing to find the cars and another to get truly good copy and truly good photos. But lately, neither (the finding or the articles) have been happening with enough regularity. I noticed your past rides in another thread and thought it was really cool that you moved from 28s to a Spyder. Very interesting. Anyway, it reminded me about this matter.
That said, a very cool 928 story does appear to be on deck...
pete
My switch from 928's to Spyders definitely can't be the norm.
As a kid I always had a love for the two extremes:
1. Fast, well built GT Cars with luxury, comfort, cool features and great styling
2. Lightweight, simple, stylish and lithe handling convertibles.
I wanted a Miata for my first car when I was a kid, I didn't care if guys thought it was a girls car. I just wanted that driving experience. I ended up with a well used 190E 5spd (not bad either).
So I've owned a 500E and the two 928's which filled the role of the fast GT car but I've never owned a true convertible sports car. Truthfully the only convertible sports cars I wanted to own were way out of my reach (certain Ferrari's, Lambo's, Spyker). I didn't fall in love with the air cooled 911 driving feel and newer 911's are more GT than sport. The Boxster S although attractive just wasn't enough sport to make me want to switch.
Along came the Spyder.....and I just couldn't resist. It was the first car that was easily within financial reach that I REALLY wanted. Capable, well built, no nonsense and beautiful. I have no urge to change anything major on the car which is a first for me. I'm glad Porsche built it and I'm glad I was able to order it the way I wanted.
Keep up the good work!
09-16-2011, 02:13 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Looking forward to reading the 928 article. I believe the Holbert car is now being restored to its original glory by a gentleman in CT. Can't wait to see it finished.
My switch from 928's to Spyders definitely can't be the norm.
As a kid I always had a love for the two extremes:
1. Fast, well built GT Cars with luxury, comfort, cool features and great styling
2. Lightweight, simple, stylish and lithe handling convertibles.
I wanted a Miata for my first car when I was a kid, I didn't care if guys thought it was a girls car. I just wanted that driving experience. I ended up with a well used 190E 5spd (not bad either).
So I've owned a 500E and the two 928's which filled the role of the fast GT car but I've never owned a true convertible sports car. Truthfully the only convertible sports cars I wanted to own were way out of my reach (certain Ferrari's, Lambo's, Spyker). I didn't fall in love with the air cooled 911 driving feel and newer 911's are more GT than sport. The Boxster S although attractive just wasn't enough sport to make me want to switch.
Along came the Spyder.....and I just couldn't resist. It was the first car that was easily within financial reach that I REALLY wanted. Capable, well built, no nonsense and beautiful. I have no urge to change anything major on the car which is a first for me. I'm glad Porsche built it and I'm glad I was able to order it the way I wanted.
Keep up the good work!
My switch from 928's to Spyders definitely can't be the norm.
As a kid I always had a love for the two extremes:
1. Fast, well built GT Cars with luxury, comfort, cool features and great styling
2. Lightweight, simple, stylish and lithe handling convertibles.
I wanted a Miata for my first car when I was a kid, I didn't care if guys thought it was a girls car. I just wanted that driving experience. I ended up with a well used 190E 5spd (not bad either).
So I've owned a 500E and the two 928's which filled the role of the fast GT car but I've never owned a true convertible sports car. Truthfully the only convertible sports cars I wanted to own were way out of my reach (certain Ferrari's, Lambo's, Spyker). I didn't fall in love with the air cooled 911 driving feel and newer 911's are more GT than sport. The Boxster S although attractive just wasn't enough sport to make me want to switch.
Along came the Spyder.....and I just couldn't resist. It was the first car that was easily within financial reach that I REALLY wanted. Capable, well built, no nonsense and beautiful. I have no urge to change anything major on the car which is a first for me. I'm glad Porsche built it and I'm glad I was able to order it the way I wanted.
Keep up the good work!
Enjoy the Spyder. I think you know how I feel about it, and I came very close to doing something stupid with my retirement funds to grab one —*which is the first Porsche I've tested that made me think about doing that.
pete
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09-16-2011, 07:32 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ah, the right question. I knew it would surface.
The short answer is no.
The long answer: I have no reason to believe either car was out of spec.
We depend on PCNA to send test cars that are within spec, and my experience has been that it usually does. (When it hasn't, it's been down to abuse.) We check tire pressures, and that's it. I'd love to rack every car, but I know of no magazines that do and, practically speaking, it's outside of our reality. However, I have become sensitive enough to notice when cars (well, the GTx cars, at least) are "off" and have sent them back and had my suspicions confirmed in two cases. The sad thing is that press cars are often abused rather than used as intended, and thus can suffer from alignment-altering and even wheel spoke-cracking impacts (and I've seen the former a handful times over 14 years, and the latter just once).
In this Cayman R's case, the car had very few miles and I knew all of the media outlets it had been to. None of the usual car-hammering outlets had seen it yet. It drove perfectly in every way. Neither Johannes nor I recognized any obvious behavior that would suggest the R was out of alignment; it handled the same in left and right turns. Does that mean it definitely wasn't off? No, but I'd be curious to drive another Cayman R, to see if it exhibits the same hints of understeer and, when pressed, switch to mild oversteer. If that was down to alignment, then our test car was out both ways, evenly.
I have, however, noticed other outlets that I trust (EVO being one of them) note the R's willingness to get sideways, usually noting it as a good thing and easily catch-able. I would agree, as did JvO.
pete
The short answer is no.
The long answer: I have no reason to believe either car was out of spec.
We depend on PCNA to send test cars that are within spec, and my experience has been that it usually does. (When it hasn't, it's been down to abuse.) We check tire pressures, and that's it. I'd love to rack every car, but I know of no magazines that do and, practically speaking, it's outside of our reality. However, I have become sensitive enough to notice when cars (well, the GTx cars, at least) are "off" and have sent them back and had my suspicions confirmed in two cases. The sad thing is that press cars are often abused rather than used as intended, and thus can suffer from alignment-altering and even wheel spoke-cracking impacts (and I've seen the former a handful times over 14 years, and the latter just once).
In this Cayman R's case, the car had very few miles and I knew all of the media outlets it had been to. None of the usual car-hammering outlets had seen it yet. It drove perfectly in every way. Neither Johannes nor I recognized any obvious behavior that would suggest the R was out of alignment; it handled the same in left and right turns. Does that mean it definitely wasn't off? No, but I'd be curious to drive another Cayman R, to see if it exhibits the same hints of understeer and, when pressed, switch to mild oversteer. If that was down to alignment, then our test car was out both ways, evenly.
I have, however, noticed other outlets that I trust (EVO being one of them) note the R's willingness to get sideways, usually noting it as a good thing and easily catch-able. I would agree, as did JvO.
pete
09-16-2011, 08:05 PM
#10
Race Director
Now, if I can just figure out how to get the slow trickle of cool 928s, 924s, 944s, and 968s back into the book, I'll be cooking with gas. Finding ones that we haven't covered but that are worthy — and then actually getting a proper article on them — has remained one of the more difficult challenges of my time here.
Road and track testing will begin in a few weeks just in time for cooler air and the fall colors.
09-16-2011, 08:14 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Neat article. Cant wait for the Mag...
I wonder if the handling difference can be partly attributed to the slightly lower center of gravity of the BSpyder.
Looking forward to the full review.
My Club, Delaware PCA, is throwing its annual DE Columbus Day weekend and the primary Sponsor, Porsche of Delaware, is running a CaymanR. A friend will be running his BSpyder. I am really looking forward to seeing them out there together.
I wonder if the handling difference can be partly attributed to the slightly lower center of gravity of the BSpyder.
Looking forward to the full review.
My Club, Delaware PCA, is throwing its annual DE Columbus Day weekend and the primary Sponsor, Porsche of Delaware, is running a CaymanR. A friend will be running his BSpyder. I am really looking forward to seeing them out there together.
09-16-2011, 10:35 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Ah, the right question. I knew it would surface.
The short answer is no.
The long answer: I have no reason to believe either car was out of spec.
We depend on PCNA to send test cars that are within spec, and my experience has been that it usually does. (When it hasn't, it's been down to abuse.) We check tire pressures, and that's it. I'd love to rack every car, but I know of no magazines that do and, practically speaking, it's outside of our reality. However, I have become sensitive enough to notice when cars (well, the GTx cars, at least) are "off" and have sent them back and had my suspicions confirmed in two cases. The sad thing is that press cars are often abused rather than used as intended, and thus can suffer from alignment-altering and even wheel spoke-cracking impacts (and I've seen the former a handful times over 14 years, and the latter just once).
In this Cayman R's case, the car had very few miles and I knew all of the media outlets it had been to. None of the usual car-hammering outlets had seen it yet. It drove perfectly in every way. Neither Johannes nor I recognized any obvious behavior that would suggest the R was out of alignment; it handled the same in left and right turns. Does that mean it definitely wasn't off? No, but I'd be curious to drive another Cayman R, to see if it exhibits the same hints of understeer and, when pressed, switch to mild oversteer. If that was down to alignment, then our test car was out both ways, evenly.
I have, however, noticed other outlets that I trust (EVO being one of them) note the R's willingness to get sideways, usually noting it as a good thing and easily catch-able. I would agree, as did JvO.
pete
The short answer is no.
The long answer: I have no reason to believe either car was out of spec.
We depend on PCNA to send test cars that are within spec, and my experience has been that it usually does. (When it hasn't, it's been down to abuse.) We check tire pressures, and that's it. I'd love to rack every car, but I know of no magazines that do and, practically speaking, it's outside of our reality. However, I have become sensitive enough to notice when cars (well, the GTx cars, at least) are "off" and have sent them back and had my suspicions confirmed in two cases. The sad thing is that press cars are often abused rather than used as intended, and thus can suffer from alignment-altering and even wheel spoke-cracking impacts (and I've seen the former a handful times over 14 years, and the latter just once).
In this Cayman R's case, the car had very few miles and I knew all of the media outlets it had been to. None of the usual car-hammering outlets had seen it yet. It drove perfectly in every way. Neither Johannes nor I recognized any obvious behavior that would suggest the R was out of alignment; it handled the same in left and right turns. Does that mean it definitely wasn't off? No, but I'd be curious to drive another Cayman R, to see if it exhibits the same hints of understeer and, when pressed, switch to mild oversteer. If that was down to alignment, then our test car was out both ways, evenly.
I have, however, noticed other outlets that I trust (EVO being one of them) note the R's willingness to get sideways, usually noting it as a good thing and easily catch-able. I would agree, as did JvO.
pete
What is you best guess on the difference? Is the small amount of additional stiffening (chassis and suspension claims) just that little bit to much?
And, based on your experience, do you think swapping to R-compound tires would benefit the R more than the Spyder?
Thanks, again.
09-17-2011, 12:56 AM
#13
Nordschleife Master
Unexpected result. A bit of a bummer that you weren't able to run the testing on a full fledged road course. Great article nonetheless. The spyder has a front license plate mounted... oh the horror!
09-18-2011, 03:20 AM
#15
Is this Johannes a good driver?
Just in case some of you don't recognize who Johannes van Overbeek is, he just won third place tonight at ALMS in Laguna Seca in the GT category, driving a Ferrari 458, and coming right behind a BMW M3 and the 911 RSR of Flying Lizard MS! He is to the left of Jorg Bergmeister and Patrick Long in this photo I took tonight. So I think it is quite interesting that such an experienced & talented driver is giving us feedback on the Spyder & Cayman R for this article in Excellence. And I thank Pete for putting it all together and making it available to us online. This face-to-face comparison is something we have been waiting to see, read and analyse since Porsche announced it was going to produce a Cayman R on the heels of their much praised Spyder. Saludos, z356