Johnny LaRue

Hi folks,

(Please feel free to skip the following ponderous preamble and go straight to bolded section/pics.)

Foreword: I’m tentatively dipping my toes into the 996 waters as a potential replacement for our second car—an obnoxiously practical Honda Fit dorkmobile. The 911 would be a light-duty daily driver/errand runner/joy rides/occasional short-distance road trips. While I will surely miss the Fit’s fuel economy and adult-cow-sized cargo capacity, our other car is a RAV4 Prime which covers those needs and I think I’m ready to know what it feels like to own a car that inspires lusty feelings.

Other cars being considered in the $20K-ish range, which are more practical but less desirable to me than a 996, are a (still somewhat dorky) MK7/7.5 GTI, and some of the less awful EVs from recent years (Ioniq 5, Polestar 2, Volvo XC40, etc.) We have solar power which gives the EVs a pragmatic edge, soulless as they may be.

I arrived at the 996 because: major bargain, and I think they look awesome, and they have working airbags and guzzle considerably less gas than my actual childhood dream car, the 928.

I’ve driven at least two examples of every car mentioned above, including some 996s.

TIME-CONSCIOUS PEOPLE START HERE: I’m going to check out a couple of 996.1 cars this week. Both $20K. Both 1999, both Tiptronics in case the wife needs a backup when the RAV is in the shop.

First is a base Carrera, silver/black, one owner, at a used car dealership with an acceptable reputation. 105K miles, excellent cosmetics. No comprehensive service history, but a recent, somewhat superficial clean bill of health from the well-regarded Autowerkes Inc here in SoCal (see pics.)

Second is a Carrera 4, rare gold/blue/black, 143K miles but with a comprehensive service history (binder of receipts.) I’m not particularly drawn to the AWD myself—would rather lose the extra weight, understeer and recoup some MPG, but that colour combo is admittedly pretty sweet.

I’m not concerned about IMS stuff for either of these, nor am I terribly concerned about bore scoring since these cars have already asserted their longevity (as far as I can tell…)

Thoughts? Feelings? Opinions? I want ‘em all! Thanks!

Makoto0406

So a bit to unpack. So first and foremost any repairs on this car are going to be expensive. A good ppi will be worth it.

You can mitigate repair costs if you are handy with a wrench but even so parts have an obscene markup (think 5-10x comparable Honda parts). With that in mind you should probably budget 5k for unexpected repairs.

I'd also take a look at those service records. If all that ever happened was routine maintenance without any major problems that one is a keeper. If the RMS has been changed 4 times. Prepare for that to happen again (my cars service record showed a particular oil tube was frequently replaced and....surprise I had to replace it after 2k miles)

Both those cars are higher mileage examples so check to see if they have had serpentine belt, water pump, brakes and other mileage appropriate service done. Bonus if they refreshed the suspension. Make sure the CV boots look good

the good news is the car is super easy to work on once you get it off the ground.

Any ppi should come with a interrogation of the computer (DME report). This will give you an idea how harshly the car has been driven. Find out if it was tracked and if so how much.

Bore scoring can be an issue with these cars so check the exhaust for abnormal carbon buildup and listen for a ticking or slap sound on cold startup (a good price should scope the cylinders)

Don't let any of this scare you. I bought a C4 cab a couple of years ago for 20k and it's been an awesome experience.

M

Johnny LaRue

So much good info in here—thanks for taking the time.

I keep coming across the “$5K for unexpected repairs” line which means there must be some truth to it. It’s ultimately not a ton of money to sink into something that should otherwise maintain its value, but it’s still a bit of a bummer. That said, the higher mileage gold C4 (with the 3” binder of service records and receipts) was definitely very well maintained from the sounds of it. It just got a new water pump and thermostat a coupla months ago and is (allegedly) in peak form. Great advice about looking out for patterns like multiple RMS replacements—I will keep that in mind!

The C2 is a bit more mysterious. It’s at a used car dealership, apparently a one-owner car and it does look immaculate for having 100K miles on it (which suggests it was well cared for but who knows for sure…) I would insist on a PPI for that one and walk if the dealership isn’t cooperative.

Anyway, thanks again for chiming in. I’ll report back once I’ve actually seen the cars in person. 🤞

996-CAB

This is a tough one. The fact that the cars have survived to this point doesn't change the IMS bearing or bore score issues. It makes them more likely to occur, not less. The 996 is as lovely as any 911, but it has documented issues so well known that forests of trees have been cut down to record them. A low price or high mileage that don't address these don't change the metrics. Buyer beware.

Patunia

Which one has the options you’re looking for? Someone wants comfort seats, others sport,,,etc,,,,
Whatever you do, get a ppi performed. If the selllers say nah bruh,,,,move on. There’s a ton of cars available! But yeah, put aside some $$$ for repair/replacement parts labor hours. Good luck
pics just because

Factory grey on grey on grey

Black 4 spoke steering wheel, mats, shift **** and boot. Must have cup holder

Johnny LaRue

Whoops, double post!

Johnny LaRue

I hear you, but I thought the earliest 996.1 cars were the least susceptible of the bunch? Not that I would conflate that with total immunity, but that makes it a bit more of an acceptable risk for me.

But yeah, if I’m adding $5K for unforeseen repairs and another $5K for an IMS replacement (Tiptronic tax), then rationally speaking a 997 would probably be a smarter buy, wouldn’t it? And that’s kind of a moot point since that’s out of my budget, unfortunately. :/

Johnny LaRue

Good point re: options, although these cars are kind of famously underappointed and I’m relatively ok with that. The two that I’ve test-driven so far were almost comically no-frills but still at least marginally more comfortable than a Cambodian prison (from what I’ve read.) That said, the C4 has an updated head unit and a fairly nice all leather navy blue interior. Counts for something!

And thanks for the pics. Every pic helps.

996love

There’s a general consensus that the 1999s are the best of the 996s. The later models all have their oddities: MY2000s suffer from a flawed cylinder head casting and are prone to cracking. 3.6L engines are more susceptible to bore scoring.

The 997 is is just as likely, if not more, to suffer from bore scoring.

Now that these cars are 20+ years old, there’s a wealth of published information about all problems you will encounter. I recommend you watch PCA’s videos on bore scoring and IMS bearings to give yourself a better idea of what you’re getting yourself into.




EDIT:
Oh yeah, alongside these issues, you also have to worry about Cam Deviations, too.

Knowing what I know now, if I were looking to purchase a 996, I would look for a 1999 with a history of frequent oil changes using quality oil. I think the oil change frequency plays a huge role in the longevity of your engine.

Johnny LaRue

Thanks for that! I’d read a lot about those issues (less so the cam deviations) and narrowed my search to the ‘99 MY accordingly, but these videos are an eye opener.

I’m going to try to keep a level head about the risks and try not to let myself be spooked into buying one of the newer, safer, less exciting options in my original post.

igrip

I like the one with maintenance records. At least you know what has been done and when. The other you will have to baseline and will (possibly) cost you more in the long run.

ZuffenZeus

You've gotten some good general advice on this thread, but what specific questions do you have?

GC996

You have the same issues with the 997 as the 996, which means you will have to budget for the same "bullet proofing" enhancements/replacements with the IMSB, AOS, water pump and bore scoring prevention procedures. The servicing will cost you about the same, but your purchase price in the 997 will be substabtially higher.

Good news is if you buy a "good" 996 or 997, you can bullet proof it pretty easily. Comes down to which model tickles your fancy more and how much you want to pay for a purchase. My preference is the 996 over the 997. Yours may be different. The 996 has aged well with a classic look. Not to mention it can be dressed up with aero and/or wheels and dressed down in base model form and it works for any era. Same can be said for its handling.

911Dreamer

Unless you have valid proof of this, I wouldn't bother stating this nonsense...

The 997 block is the same as the 996 , as are the crank rods, heads, cams and intake manifolds. The only differences between the 997 engine and the 996 is different accessory routing, intake airbox and exhaust routing. Yes the rear main seal and clutch were revised on the 997, but those parts are now the current service replacements for the 996 through your Porsche dealer.

intermediate shafts and shaft bearing can also fail. This is usually a slow process and is preceded by an IMS leak. If it isn't fixed at the first sign of a problem, it can easily result in valves hitting pistons and an engine replacement down the line. Being intelligent and dealing with issues when they occur and not waiting can easily prevent a major issue down the line. so, no these cars are not ticking time bombs as some of the vendors make them seem. The bore scoring seems to have jumped up since the oldest care is now 20+ years and its not just the 996, 997, Boxsters and Caymans, where is the hard proof that the 997 is more prone vs the 996?

We all know there are updates to parts and some designated 997 (parts) Porsche did drop the ball on the 996 but we as owners know this when we repair them,

brontosaurus

Remember you can always convert the C4 to a C2 for quite cheap. The car doesn't care if the driveshaft and diff are there, so if a C4 strikes your fancy but you don't want to deal with the compromised drivetrain, it's a pretty easy job and easily reversible for resale.

Also I'm a sucker for gold cars so..