Johnny LaRue

Good question!

I guess I was wondering which of these two cars most of you guys would choose, and whether the extra 45k miles on the gold C4 would be compensated for by the service records, whether the C4 would get less love than the C2, stuff like that.

And the question I still need to answer for myself is whether I am willing to live with the many compromises inherent in owning an older 911 (fewer creature comforts, worse fuel economy, repair bills, less cargo room, etc.) in the pursuit of beauty, exciting driving dynamics and the fulfillment of a childhood dream. Basically I have to convince myself not to care that a GTI or one of those EVs would be a significantly more practical choice and get over whatever guilt-adjacent feelings I might have about that. But I realize this isn’t something anyone else can realistically be expected to answer for me.

996-CAB

Yes, the earlier 996s with double row bearings appear to fail less frequently, but you should really look at this differently. The market is telling you to beware. The market puts a lower price on the 996 because it has several well known flaws, one of which (the IMS bearing) could literally wipe out any value in the car. The price is where it is because those of us who can afford to alleviate all the issues, find it acceptable. It's why we all suggest a bottom-up bore scoping and are willing to pay more for a car that has had all the work done to ameliorate the known issues. I don't think there are any "bargains" in the 911 marketplace. My own view is that any 911 from any year that sells for less than $40K, will require a value of repairs that is at least the difference between that and the selling price. Obviously both your options begin with a $2, and you may get lucky, but you asked...

One thing you might consider that could help with the budget is to buy the car from a Porsche or other dealer who can finance the car for you. Then you can put some of the cash aside for future repairs. I would also spend the money to purchase a CarFax before making any offer.

philbert996

Minimum “$5K” for deferred/preventative maintenance.
Unexpected repairs are a completely different matter.

The price of properly maintaining a 996 reflects the original MSRP not today’s depreciated bargain.

ZuffenZeus

I'm on my fourth Porsche. When it comes to the "many compromises" of owning one of these cars, I'm happy to explain. The 911 is like a drug, once you get a dose, you're hooked at the Breaking Bad level. It's an expensive habit, but enjoyable nonetheless. However, if I'm totally truthful with you, I'll give it to you plain and straight. If you're looking for a "practical" daily driver, this is not your car. This is weekend man therapy on wheels. If you want a practical daily driver, then get a Toyota. If you want a thrill ride that comes at a significant cost, then there is NO substitute. (((coughs))

P O R S C H E!

GC996

Johnny, there is nothing practical about buying a 20 year old Porsche. It will cost you money to keep it running, regardless of the price you pay for it. If you are smart amd patient, you can find one whose previous owner took care of the bores and did all the service work that should have been performed.

Sit down, here is what it's going to cost you assuming you have NO DIY skills and you pay for parts and labor.

Bullet proof the engine. ($8-12k) UAOS, IMSB, RMS, Clutch, flywheel, water pump, oil cooler, fuel Injectors, ignition coils, spark plugs, MAF, oxy sensors, oil sensor, and other basic refresh items.

Suspension, brakes & tires. ($5-12k)

Exhaust. ($8-10k)

These number don't count any "pretty" stuff like exterior and interior upgrades. Nor does it count things like coolant leaks and power steering leaks which ultimately happen.

the key is to bullet proof the engine first. Then take the next few years and build out a plan to address suspension, brakes, tires, exhaust, exterior and interior items in an affordable manner.

Just my two sents. I have owned my 996.2 for 22 years. Will never get rid of it. Glad I serviced the hell out of it over the years. I can decide at the drop of a hat to drive it from Chicago to whatever state I want for a long trip w/o loosing sleep. But there is a cost to keeping the car in excellent shape.

911Dreamer

And yet the 996 poll for IMS issues says otherwise here?. Much like the 964, the 996 has a stigma attached it.

GC996

Yeah, I think the Rennlist marketing machine (Bdron) was working overtime over the last 4 years on the 99. they all have their quirks. Part of the charm of the 996 variations.

997GT

Is there really a consensus on 996.1 head crack prevalence by year? I don’t think I’ve ever read that before.

GC996

LN, FSI amd Hartech would have more complete data. Same with Len Hoffman. I believe, Hoffman has a writeup on their Hamheads website discussing the common failures. Don't remember if he discusses years. But he is the "head" expert so he would know. I'll attach a link if I can find one.

here it is.
http://newsite.hamheads.com/porsche/

GC996

Something to think about. After 20+ years we now know the issues and solutions/prevention. Back in the day we didn't. So a number of things went wrong as a result. Good news is the 996/M96 is pretty easy to bullet proof today.

Funny thing is the 997, 991, 992, 718 etc, are all going thru the same exercise today. We just have the benefit as 996 owners to have 20+ years of history to know how to easily solve for the issues. It will be awhile before the late model porsche owners identify the issues and solutions.

Johnny LaRue

Just wanted to take a second to thank you all for your feedback. There’s some very sobering advice in this thread and it’s giving me pause for thought.

I’m no stranger to ‘vintage’ things and the occasional/constant aggravations that arise when they inevitably break or develop quirks. That’s part of the deal. Admittedly though, the financial stakes in this venture are a level or two up from what I’m accustomed to and I’m suddenly not sure I’m entirely comfortable with that.

That said, I think I’ll follow through with seeing the gold C4 and take a close look at the service binder to see what kind of story it tells. If I like the car and the maintenance history is thorough enough, I’ll proceed with a PPI and take it from there.

Thanks again, folks!

996love

Yeah, check this thread out.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-syndrome.html

996love

“The most common engines that need to be bore scoped for bore scoring include the Porsche 911 3.6 liter M96.03, M96.05, and 3.8 liter M97.01 engines.”





https://lnengineering.com/products/w...e-scoring.html

GC996

The car may be in perfect shape and well serviced which can save you alot of money amd headaches. In addition to the PPI/Borescope being positive, the service records will tell you what is been done and more importantly, what hasn't, which will give you an idea of what you have to spend money on. Plenty of 996s out there that are buy and drive examples.

Our comments aren't made to scare you. Quite frankly, the 996 is an easy car to keep running in top condition. Instead our comments are to provide things to be aware of and plan for. In the grand scheme of 20 year old sports cars, the 996 is the hidden gem. But not for long.

cqhall

This is just general advice when buying a 20+ year old German luxury car, be it Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc... This is more about the ravages of time than how well it was maintained by the previous owner(s). Rubber loses elasticity, plastic gets brittle, wires fray, etc...

The good thing is that forums (like this one) were very popular for such cars from that era. So, there is a lot of deep knowledge available on forums. Every problem that you'll probably ever encounter has been encountered, solved, and thoroughly documented with a DIY thread (and now we have YT videos!). You won't find such on FB or Reddit.

The other good news is that there is still a lot of support for these cars from Porsche and the aftermarket community. I needed two random, unique bolts for a recent install and was able to get it from my local dealership...for $17 each 😒.

...which brings me to the "Porsche Tax". It's very real and very expensive (relatively), even when compared to other German luxury brands. So, another phrase which also rings true is that, "There is no such thing as a cheap Porsche/Mercedes/BMW/Audi." Either you pay up front by buying a new or younger car or you pay on the back end when you buy an older one, but either way you are gonna pay.

Maybe cut your teeth on project cars with an older Audi, BMW, or Mercedes before getting into Porsches as the costs for buying-in and maintaining them rises for each in the order that they are listed.