Building a new 500whp engine, have some questions.
11-19-2016, 07:31 AM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I'd say your budget is not realistic for a Nurburgring-ready 500rwhp 951, unless your car already has most/all of the needed support parts (clutch, turbo, ecu, fuel system, suspension, safety equipment, etc., etc.).
Check out the 3 Liter Registry sticky above and study the many build threads here. Most of your questions are huge topics with long mega-threads here, and don't lend themselves to simple answers.
I'm sure every guy here who has built his own 500rwhp car spent hours and hours studying and planning -- there's really no getting around it unless you pay someone else to do all the work (which comes with its own risks for sure). The great news is there is a ton of great info here for anyone serious about a project like this, and when you start getting down to the specifics of your project you will have no shortage of opinions and advice!
Check out the 3 Liter Registry sticky above and study the many build threads here. Most of your questions are huge topics with long mega-threads here, and don't lend themselves to simple answers.
I'm sure every guy here who has built his own 500rwhp car spent hours and hours studying and planning -- there's really no getting around it unless you pay someone else to do all the work (which comes with its own risks for sure). The great news is there is a ton of great info here for anyone serious about a project like this, and when you start getting down to the specifics of your project you will have no shortage of opinions and advice!
10k is just on the longblock part.
i have the EMU ECU system.
Fuel system is 2x044 Bosch pumps.
New inntake will be printed in carbon.
Head + cam is about 2k with some help.
Suspension + brakes are another budget. KW Competition + bigred converison.
Thanks, going to check more in the 3liter registery
11-19-2016, 07:53 AM
#17
Professional Hoon
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10k is just on the longblock part.
i have the EMU ECU system.
Fuel system is 2x044 Bosch pumps.
New inntake will be printed in carbon.
Head + cam is about 2k with some help.
Suspension + brakes are another budget. KW Competition + bigred converison.
Thanks, going to check more in the 3liter registery
i have the EMU ECU system.
Fuel system is 2x044 Bosch pumps.
New inntake will be printed in carbon.
Head + cam is about 2k with some help.
Suspension + brakes are another budget. KW Competition + bigred converison.
Thanks, going to check more in the 3liter registery
These blocks don't like big boost.
But you are chasing something that not many have done before.
There's a few engines that make huge power here but, those are in race cars that are designed to do 1 fast lap and that's it.
There's others that have huge power but are street cars and obviously doesn't see high boost for long periods of time.
11-19-2016, 05:31 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
I would not even consider 500whp without going 16v, that makes it much easier to achieve. For a street car stock parts (968 or S2) are good enough (with 951 rods at least) but the way I would do it now (after building 450+hp 2.5 16v engine) is to just Darton sleeve the block (or make it closed deck+use iron sleeves) and some 16v turbo pistons+lighter rods.
That allows you to utilise the potential of the great flowing 16v head fully. You have no idea how tempted I have been to crank the boost to 1.6-1.8 bars and let that Holset get into its maximum efficiency area but that would result in pile of aluminium on my 2.5 block with 944S pistons and 951 rods.
That allows you to utilise the potential of the great flowing 16v head fully. You have no idea how tempted I have been to crank the boost to 1.6-1.8 bars and let that Holset get into its maximum efficiency area but that would result in pile of aluminium on my 2.5 block with 944S pistons and 951 rods.
11-22-2016, 03:56 PM
#20
First, sorry for not searching all around the forum.
Im going to build a 500 whp 951 next winter.
It will be used on trackdays, Nurburgring etc.
When do i need to sleeve the original engine block?
What do you guys do witt the Intercooler? ( it's getting 3" inn and out + new end tanks this winter)
What's the pros/cons on 2.5L vs 3L.
I will probably end up using a GTX3582 Turbo.
1200cc injectors.
EMU Ecu (going in this winter)
951 Gearbox with LSD.
4" Lindsey exhaust is on the car.
Im going to build a 500 whp 951 next winter.
It will be used on trackdays, Nurburgring etc.
When do i need to sleeve the original engine block?
What do you guys do witt the Intercooler? ( it's getting 3" inn and out + new end tanks this winter)
What's the pros/cons on 2.5L vs 3L.
I will probably end up using a GTX3582 Turbo.
1200cc injectors.
EMU Ecu (going in this winter)
951 Gearbox with LSD.
4" Lindsey exhaust is on the car.
A 2V engine that makes over 500whp is a serious engine in any man's world. To make 500whp to last 14 miles around that circuit should never be underestimated.
It has being suggested to go the 16V route. Yes is is a little easier to make the power required, but the costs go up exponentially.
11-22-2016, 06:06 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
11-22-2016, 06:56 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
From what I have seen of two engines built to make over 500whp, 30K is nowhere near enough. You will spend 10K on the head alone. Don't be fooled that it will cost anything less.
A 2V engine that makes over 500whp is a serious engine in any man's world. To make 500whp to last 14 miles around that circuit should never be underestimated.
It has being suggested to go the 16V route. Yes is is a little easier to make the power required, but the costs go up exponentially.
A 2V engine that makes over 500whp is a serious engine in any man's world. To make 500whp to last 14 miles around that circuit should never be underestimated.
It has being suggested to go the 16V route. Yes is is a little easier to make the power required, but the costs go up exponentially.
Is this perhaps assuming all the labor/machining/tuning work will be done by a third party?
11-22-2016, 08:27 PM
#23
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10k on a 968 head:
can cost around $800 for valves
valve springs - $1500
camshafts - anywhere around 800-2000 depending on who does them ect.
head machine work. well that can cost thousands. depending what you're after.
can cost around $800 for valves
valve springs - $1500
camshafts - anywhere around 800-2000 depending on who does them ect.
head machine work. well that can cost thousands. depending what you're after.
11-22-2016, 08:45 PM
#24
Rainman
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Even shooting for 500whp I can't see a need to do anything to the 968 head casting other than cut the surface smooth and replace guides/seals.
The ports/valves are MASSIVE and certainly no restriction even at that power level.
The ports/valves are MASSIVE and certainly no restriction even at that power level.
11-22-2016, 10:50 PM
#25
I made 500 rwhp on a superflow dyno at 18 psi. 3 liter, very worked 8v head, JME cam, stand alone, gt3582.... It will cost you a lot more than 10k. I spent that on a rebuilding my tranny with a wavetrack, and 1000 ft/lbs rated half shafts. You really need to know the car and how to work on it besides finding a good tuner/builder which in the 951 world is very hard to find and are usually very unreliable. Its not like building a Camaro where you can go down the road and find a tuner and everything has been tested and proven.
I would suggest another car unless you have a real passion for the 951.
I would suggest another car unless you have a real passion for the 951.
11-23-2016, 12:03 AM
#26
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If someone is actually serious about buying a properly built highly customised 2.5ltr racemotor that has reached over 500whp on a conservative dyno then they can contact me. Comes with custom deckplate and massive 9/16" headstuds. Custom rods, pistons, valvetrain. I would also provide it with 4-1 headers, billet CEP dry sump pump bracket, dry sump pump, custom intake manifold and possibly other bits and pieces. Would be looking at $35k for this. Motor has been run for only circa 15 hours in car.
11-23-2016, 01:32 AM
#28
Three Wheelin'
Why would anyone need to spend money on cams on 16v cars, especially 968 for pretty much any power? Let alone 500whp..
Also valves and springs too? Anyone with 16v turbo motors had any issues with valves dropping or something?
Overthinking has never given any good result but hey, it's your money
Also valves and springs too? Anyone with 16v turbo motors had any issues with valves dropping or something?
Overthinking has never given any good result but hey, it's your money
11-23-2016, 02:00 AM
#29
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Why would anyone need to spend money on cams on 16v cars, especially 968 for pretty much any power? Let alone 500whp..
Also valves and springs too? Anyone with 16v turbo motors had any issues with valves dropping or something?
Overthinking has never given any good result but hey, it's your money
Also valves and springs too? Anyone with 16v turbo motors had any issues with valves dropping or something?
Overthinking has never given any good result but hey, it's your money
Rods 3L 16v 968 motor. (RP968)
There's some head work done + bigger cams, bigger valves, solid lifters ect.
EFR9180 turbo
Quote from the thread/post
this run doesn't do it full justice, a lot of wheel spin(and the dyno is a heartbreaker anyway), we know from the tuning runs we have met our 800bhp figure ,and that is about all we can get from this combination, the turbo is at close to max speed and we don't want to push the block any further, not a lot of timing in the tune.
11-23-2016, 04:18 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Why would anyone need to spend money on cams on 16v cars, especially 968 for pretty much any power? Let alone 500whp..
Also valves and springs too? Anyone with 16v turbo motors had any issues with valves dropping or something?
Overthinking has never given any good result but hey, it's your money
Also valves and springs too? Anyone with 16v turbo motors had any issues with valves dropping or something?
Overthinking has never given any good result but hey, it's your money