Building a new 500whp engine, have some questions.
11-23-2016, 04:31 AM
#31
Why would anyone need to spend money on cams on 16v cars, especially 968 for pretty much any power? Let alone 500whp..
Also valves and springs too? Anyone with 16v turbo motors had any issues with valves dropping or something?
Overthinking has never given any good result but hey, it's your money
Also valves and springs too? Anyone with 16v turbo motors had any issues with valves dropping or something?
Overthinking has never given any good result but hey, it's your money
The engines in these race cars shown here, will make their 500 hp and accelerate out of the corner and be half way down the straight while most of these other budget 500hp engines are still climbing towards 250hp. Look at the dyno reports. These two engines are running above 7500 RPM and I have seen a video here of one of the engines here running up to 8000 RPM. Try doing that and have it last with street parts. If you haven't seen how quickly these engines accelerate look at the videos posted here by some. I guess that is where the $$ are.
11-23-2016, 04:33 AM
#32
If someone is actually serious about buying a properly built highly customised 2.5ltr racemotor that has reached over 500whp on a conservative dyno then they can contact me. Comes with custom deckplate and massive 9/16" headstuds. Custom rods, pistons, valvetrain. I would also provide it with 4-1 headers, billet CEP dry sump pump bracket, dry sump pump, custom intake manifold and possibly other bits and pieces. Would be looking at $35k for this. Motor has been run for only circa 15 hours in car.
11-23-2016, 04:59 AM
#33
When used accordingly, "street" part last tens of thousands of km without needing "upgrading". How many folks on here have covered let's say only 10000 km with their "race" engine?
From what I understand of the OP, he will be better off not deviating too much from what is available from the factory. Just my opinion but 500whp is not going to be easily usable on the road anyway.
From what I understand of the OP, he will be better off not deviating too much from what is available from the factory. Just my opinion but 500whp is not going to be easily usable on the road anyway.
11-23-2016, 06:14 AM
#34
Three Wheelin'
I think you will find that it is not just about making 500 hp. It has alot to do with how quickly the engine makes that power, how flat the torque curve is and how reliable. What I have seen, these parts are very lightweight and made especially for the application.
The engines in these race cars shown here, will make their 500 hp and accelerate out of the corner and be half way down the straight while most of these other budget 500hp engines are still climbing towards 250hp. Look at the dyno reports. These two engines are running above 7500 RPM and I have seen a video here of one of the engines here running up to 8000 RPM. Try doing that and have it last with street parts. If you haven't seen how quickly these engines accelerate look at the videos posted here by some. I guess that is where the $$ are.
The engines in these race cars shown here, will make their 500 hp and accelerate out of the corner and be half way down the straight while most of these other budget 500hp engines are still climbing towards 250hp. Look at the dyno reports. These two engines are running above 7500 RPM and I have seen a video here of one of the engines here running up to 8000 RPM. Try doing that and have it last with street parts. If you haven't seen how quickly these engines accelerate look at the videos posted here by some. I guess that is where the $$ are.
This is 944 S2 head, completely stock, with 16cm2 split entry turbine HX40 Super, running at 1.6 bar.
I have been building both street and race engines for a bit, so far many stock parts are in fact better quality than many aftermarket parts.
Getting the engine to respond is much more to do with tuning (both the hardware you have and ECU calibration) than throwing parts onto it.
Getting throttle response is just a matter of knowing how to tune anti-lag
Let me see a race-car that spends time under 3500rpm on race-track (not auto-x). In fact you have 3500-3500 to 7000 rpm powerband which is like twice the powerband of souped up normally aspirated cars and yet they race on the track also..
11-23-2016, 06:19 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
I think the 'budget' motors can work well for the street and to a lesser degree, circuits. The faster one wants to go on the track, the more exponentially steeper the dollar curve become$.
If quality components were a waste of money then Pro teams wouldn't bother and the component manufacturers would go out of business. Race engine builders would all just pull components off the factory shelf. Clearly this doesn't happen. Can or should we compare ourselves to Pro Teams...not really. The only one would be Rod and his 968. But that's not to say there isn't a point where Gustaf and a few others don't look at a factory spring, valve, retainer, rod, piston, bearing..whatever..and say "I think we need something stronger/lighter than stock in here. Stock isn't going to cut it for this build". At what point you decide to make that decision, that's up to the builder and owner. Clearly quite a few people have made good motors using stock components also.
11-23-2016, 06:28 AM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I made 500 rwhp on a superflow dyno at 18 psi. 3 liter, very worked 8v head, JME cam, stand alone, gt3582.... It will cost you a lot more than 10k. I spent that on a rebuilding my tranny with a wavetrack, and 1000 ft/lbs rated half shafts. You really need to know the car and how to work on it besides finding a good tuner/builder which in the 951 world is very hard to find and are usually very unreliable. Its not like building a Camaro where you can go down the road and find a tuner and everything has been tested and proven.
I would suggest another car unless you have a real passion for the 951.
I would suggest another car unless you have a real passion for the 951.
Ive had a Volvo 242 with 500 whp.
E28 S50b32 321 bhp
R32 550 whp
I know the way of asking before building, thats why i started this thread
11-23-2016, 06:36 AM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
This is 944 S2 head, completely stock, with 16cm2 split entry turbine HX40 Super, running at 1.6 bar.
I have been building both street and race engines for a bit, so far many stock parts are in fact better quality than many aftermarket parts.
Getting the engine to respond is much more to do with tuning (both the hardware you have and ECU calibration) than throwing parts onto it.
Getting throttle response is just a matter of knowing how to tune anti-lag
Let me see a race-car that spends time under 3500rpm on race-track (not auto-x). In fact you have 3500-3500 to 7000 rpm powerband which is like twice the powerband of souped up normally aspirated cars and yet they race on the track also..
Thanks, the tuner is one of the best in Norway, and he has a lot of racing experience, he always tune after response and drivability rather than dyno numbers.
11-23-2016, 06:40 AM
#38
Addict
Rennlist Member
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Lots of ''performance'' parts are in fact complete garbage. Its not always easy to distinguish between aftermarket parts that really are better than stock (which in porsche world is usually a big achievement) and artistic looking shiny $hit.
11-23-2016, 06:52 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Not much is special on my motor really, the valves are a little bigger, and it has a different cam and solid lifters, but only minor porting ,Carrillo 951 rods, wossner pistons, yes it's dry sump but it has a stock crank, just darton sleeves. The 16v engine is a great performer. It's the simplist part of the car really.
11-23-2016, 10:23 AM
#41
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Not much is special on my motor really, the valves are a little bigger, and it has a different cam and solid lifters, but only minor porting ,Carrillo 951 rods, wossner pistons, yes it's dry sump but it has a stock crank, just darton sleeves. The 16v engine is a great performer. It's the simplist part of the car really.
The rotating the head, i wouldn't say it's simple, but it's simple to the guys with the facilities. But for the folk doing it them selves at home with access to a stick welder, a grinder and some cordless drills, it's a lot less simple.
Nothings hard, if you have the right tools.
