EV prices +10-15%
#122
Drifting
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And BC gave me the level 2 charger for my garage.
MATH IS HARD. Its ok.
#123
Drifting
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Math ain't hard. EVs will be the minority of new cars sold globally yearly for the next 20 to 25 years at a minimum. Dont let the re-election platforms of brain dead woke politicians confuse you as the oil industry lobbyists have VERY VERY deep pockets and the fight to ensure their survival has barely begun.
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IXLR8 (04-17-2023)
#125
Burning Brakes
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You got that right. Math is not hard.
If 49% of all new car sales are EV's then that is still a minority. I am quite confident EV's will hit that target or exceed it within your 20-25 year range that you say EV's will be in the minority on new car sales globally.
What I don't understand is why the hate for EV's? If you don't like them, that's fine, don't buy one. Buy why crap all over those that like them and are willing to buy them? What if you were attacked everywhere you went because of the particular ICE car you drive? It makes no sense to me.
I suppose maybe you feel threatened by EV's and hope that by spreading false or misleading information or just generally crapping on them, it will somehow prevent global adoption of EV's. I don't think that plan has any great chance of success.
Just my two cents worth.
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
If 49% of all new car sales are EV's then that is still a minority. I am quite confident EV's will hit that target or exceed it within your 20-25 year range that you say EV's will be in the minority on new car sales globally.
What I don't understand is why the hate for EV's? If you don't like them, that's fine, don't buy one. Buy why crap all over those that like them and are willing to buy them? What if you were attacked everywhere you went because of the particular ICE car you drive? It makes no sense to me.
I suppose maybe you feel threatened by EV's and hope that by spreading false or misleading information or just generally crapping on them, it will somehow prevent global adoption of EV's. I don't think that plan has any great chance of success.
Just my two cents worth.
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
#126
Drifting
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Zero threat but I do live in reality and understand infrastructure and resource shortcomings globally as well as the tremendous lobby power of the crude industry, its key influential players and the absolutely monstrous influence they wield. The game has barely begun. Interesting days ahead.
Last edited by Pags993; 04-17-2023 at 07:06 PM.
#127
Burning Brakes
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Zero threat but I do live in reality and understand infrastructure and resource shortcomings globally as well as the tremendous lobby power of the crude industry its key influential players and the absolutely monstrous influence they wield. The game has barely begun. Interesting days ahead.
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Pags993 (04-17-2023)
#128
Rennlist Member
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Exaggerating re every second car but it’s A LOT. I guess it depends where you live. Almost every house within a block of my house has one electric car. I’d say 80% of houses. I know that EVERY house on my 5 house Court does. But I live in West Vancouver which has the highest per capita households of EVs in Canada. Perhaps my population is biased but if you rarely see them, your sampling is equally biased. I see hundreds of EVs a day on my 2x 20km commute each day though Vancouver. Hundreds.
gas cars are going away. It will take longer in many areas and it won’t be in my lifetime for some, but they’re on their way out. If you believe that gas stations will be plentiful in 50yrs you are being naive.
Gas stations are already thinning out in Vancouver. Many are selling the land for development because it’s worth more than future gas profits.
gas cars are going away. It will take longer in many areas and it won’t be in my lifetime for some, but they’re on their way out. If you believe that gas stations will be plentiful in 50yrs you are being naive.
Gas stations are already thinning out in Vancouver. Many are selling the land for development because it’s worth more than future gas profits.
I live in a rather urban setting and 1 of the 3 gas stations is closing as the land is valuable. The city admin just announced another 8 DCFC are going to be installed around the area. I think that will bring us to 20 total (24-100kwh) with around 50-70 L2 dispensers on the street. My street has 4 L2 dispensers. The local IGA was giving out vouchers for free fast charging at their stores through Charge Point. I’ll take that for a roadtrip
im fine with the tax breaks and spending on EVs, alternative energy and public transit. The oil/gas industry gets billions in handouts. We screwed the pooch by not having some sorta sovereign wealth fund that could be paying for it though. I actually think Europe is pulling ahead with rapid charging and reliable charge speeds. We are getting left behind. Soon 50kw DCFCs will be what L2 7.6kwh is now
The Local Metro has 4 L2 units as well
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#129
Rennlist Member
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There is no hate at all. I just can't believe the people that think they are saving the world by using them and that they are "freeish to run" as one member put it. That is like saying my property taxes are $100 and I am living for free, except my $1M home cost me $5M to buy. I mean how dumb can one be? Seriously, its mind boggling. Must be a troll with zero science and math background. I wish they were here to hear me laugh. They cannot accept reality.
Last edited by IXLR8; 04-17-2023 at 09:05 PM.
#130
Drifting
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If you only knew how wrong you are! You cannot read or comprehend.
Nobody here thinks they’re saving the world by driving EVs. If you choose certain EVs, the incentives wipe out the premium price, making the EV cost nothing more than the gas counterpart. Then you save $0.10 per km in running costs.
If the EV costs no more than the gas counterpart, and it costs 10% of what the ICE costs to run (less actually), it’s freeish to run and has no upfront costs (for the EV over the gas car). Get it, yet?
I’m out. Enjoy trying to convince people with actual experience about what they’re talking about that they’re wrong because Ethiopia doesn’t have charging stations on every corner. Lol. So nuts.
Nobody here thinks they’re saving the world by driving EVs. If you choose certain EVs, the incentives wipe out the premium price, making the EV cost nothing more than the gas counterpart. Then you save $0.10 per km in running costs.
If the EV costs no more than the gas counterpart, and it costs 10% of what the ICE costs to run (less actually), it’s freeish to run and has no upfront costs (for the EV over the gas car). Get it, yet?
I’m out. Enjoy trying to convince people with actual experience about what they’re talking about that they’re wrong because Ethiopia doesn’t have charging stations on every corner. Lol. So nuts.
#131
Rennlist Member
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If you only knew how wrong you are! You cannot read or comprehend.
Nobody here thinks they’re saving the world by driving EVs. If you choose certain EVs, the incentives wipe out the premium price, making the EV cost nothing more than the gas counterpart. Then you save $0.10 per km in running costs.
If the EV costs no more than the gas counterpart, and it costs 10% of what the ICE costs to run (less actually), it’s freeish to run and has no upfront costs (for the EV over the gas car). Get it, yet?
I’m out. Enjoy trying to convince people with actual experience about what they’re talking about that they’re wrong because Ethiopia doesn’t have charging stations on every corner. Lol. So nuts.
Nobody here thinks they’re saving the world by driving EVs. If you choose certain EVs, the incentives wipe out the premium price, making the EV cost nothing more than the gas counterpart. Then you save $0.10 per km in running costs.
If the EV costs no more than the gas counterpart, and it costs 10% of what the ICE costs to run (less actually), it’s freeish to run and has no upfront costs (for the EV over the gas car). Get it, yet?
I’m out. Enjoy trying to convince people with actual experience about what they’re talking about that they’re wrong because Ethiopia doesn’t have charging stations on every corner. Lol. So nuts.
mixed use the gas car is around 9.8l/100km and EV around 18kwh/100km
ICE
91 is 1.86/L let’s say 18.25$ to drive 100km
Ev
kwh is around 8c and let’s round up to 18.5kwh. 1.48$ to drive 100km
#132
Burning Brakes
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I too am out. There is no point presenting proven facts and science to those that hate EV's. The haters ignore the facts and science and continue repeating baseless talking points and using extremes like never, always, can't won't etc. No regard for the fact that never means more than a billion years.
#133
Rennlist Member
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The fact that I need to spend $20,000 more for a Nissan Leaf (long range) or Tesla 3, both cars I have gone on-line to, when compared to similar sized ICE vehicles. I can buy a lot of gas for $20,000, like 8+ years worth. But for some reason, nobody answers to that.
The fact that the advertized range is probably less since that is based on a 100% charge when new and as one member here mentioned, they only charge to 80% for a faster charge. I know all that having run a battery lab for over 5 years. And I am not willing to accept less than 500 km range as a minimum. Hell, my motorcycles do that.
The fact that the range after 10 years is substantially less if your EV has the going mileage of 200,000 kms. I have kept cars for 16 years....guess I would need a new expensive battery long before that. My 23 year old Honda is still running at 330,000 kms in the hands of a Porsche friend.
So what are these proven facts we are talking about in the real world?
#134
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
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Honest query for help with the math using the Mini example. Full disclosure that I know VERY little about EV's and I have nothing against them if it makes financial sense to buy one.
Cooper S ICE = $36,790 plus tax. S EV = $45,590 - $5,000 rebate = $40,590 plus tax, charging station and install. I've been told that EV's have an 8-10 year battery life and then are scrapped. ICE cars last 15 years if taken care of. Running costs for 20,000 km/year based on data above in thread: ICE = $3,650, EV = $296. I don't know what the mtce costs of each would be. So, about $5,000 more plus tax and charger to buy the EV, but $26,832 lower energy/fuel costs over 8 years = maybe $20,000 cheaper for EV over 8 years? Doubt the residual value of the ICE would be equal to this amount. Does that make sense???
Cooper S ICE = $36,790 plus tax. S EV = $45,590 - $5,000 rebate = $40,590 plus tax, charging station and install. I've been told that EV's have an 8-10 year battery life and then are scrapped. ICE cars last 15 years if taken care of. Running costs for 20,000 km/year based on data above in thread: ICE = $3,650, EV = $296. I don't know what the mtce costs of each would be. So, about $5,000 more plus tax and charger to buy the EV, but $26,832 lower energy/fuel costs over 8 years = maybe $20,000 cheaper for EV over 8 years? Doubt the residual value of the ICE would be equal to this amount. Does that make sense???
Last edited by Onami; 04-18-2023 at 10:50 AM.
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IXLR8 (04-18-2023)
#135
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There is a point there about battery degradation. A YouTuber who was monitoring data about their Taycan came across this inside 12 months from new. Capacity reduction. Would be interesting to see data on this. Capacity degradation and related range maximums then eventually replacement battery costs. Though unlikely for the first owner.
some more time and it’ll all be baked better than it is today.
some more time and it’ll all be baked better than it is today.