IXLR8

Oh my God, you'll be the next Prime Minister. You realize he flunked out of university. LOL

Freeish to run. Really? You paid how much for your EV out the door?

BioBanker

To help in your confusion, freeish to RUN has nothing to do with upfront costs. Perhaps you are becoming overwhelmed and you mean to ask what was the difference in OTD cost between my EV and the comparable gas car? The upfront difference in cost in my EV versus the comparable gas Golf was $0. The actual msrp difference was about $10k, and then I received $10k of incentives to buy it. Cost me nothing more to buy the EV than the comparable gas car and it costs me about $0.01 per km in electricity to drive it versus my gas cars at a $0.12/km and $0.16/km. And I dont have brake pads or oil changes to pay for either.

And BC gave me the level 2 charger for my garage.

MATH IS HARD. Its ok.

Pags993

Math ain't hard. EVs will be the minority of new cars sold globally yearly for the next 20 to 25 years at a minimum. Dont let the re-election platforms of brain dead woke politicians confuse you as the oil industry lobbyists have VERY VERY deep pockets and the fight to ensure their survival has barely begun.

IXLR8

Some of these people should get Freeland's job because she is no better at finances.

No_snivelling

You got that right. Math is not hard.

If 49% of all new car sales are EV's then that is still a minority. I am quite confident EV's will hit that target or exceed it within your 20-25 year range that you say EV's will be in the minority on new car sales globally.

What I don't understand is why the hate for EV's? If you don't like them, that's fine, don't buy one. Buy why crap all over those that like them and are willing to buy them? What if you were attacked everywhere you went because of the particular ICE car you drive? It makes no sense to me.

I suppose maybe you feel threatened by EV's and hope that by spreading false or misleading information or just generally crapping on them, it will somehow prevent global adoption of EV's. I don't think that plan has any great chance of success.
Just my two cents worth.

Pags993

Zero threat but I do live in reality and understand infrastructure and resource shortcomings globally as well as the tremendous lobby power of the crude industry, its key influential players and the absolutely monstrous influence they wield. The game has barely begun. Interesting days ahead.

No_snivelling

We can agree on the tremendous power and influence of the oil and gas lobby and interesting days ahead. Oil and gas companies are loaded with cash, immensely profitable yet globally manage to extract over $1 Trillion USD in tax breaks and incentives. Makes no sense to me until you follow the money that goes to political donations and probably worse.

Gregster

in my complex of 16 townhouses there are 5 EV(Taycan, Bolt, Mini SE, Model 3 and Model Y) and 2 PHEV(Rav4 Prime and Lexus Version). The court in back is prob the same with PHEVs from what I see. I know there are 3 Teslas.

I live in a rather urban setting and 1 of the 3 gas stations is closing as the land is valuable. The city admin just announced another 8 DCFC are going to be installed around the area. I think that will bring us to 20 total (24-100kwh) with around 50-70 L2 dispensers on the street. My street has 4 L2 dispensers. The local IGA was giving out vouchers for free fast charging at their stores through Charge Point. I’ll take that for a roadtrip

im fine with the tax breaks and spending on EVs, alternative energy and public transit. The oil/gas industry gets billions in handouts. We screwed the pooch by not having some sorta sovereign wealth fund that could be paying for it though. I actually think Europe is pulling ahead with rapid charging and reliable charge speeds. We are getting left behind. Soon 50kw DCFCs will be what L2 7.6kwh is now

The Local Metro has 4 L2 units as well

IXLR8

There is no hate at all. I just can't believe the people that think they are saving the world by using them and that they are "freeish to run" as one member put it. That is like saying my property taxes are $100 and I am living for free, except my $1M home cost me $5M to buy. I mean how dumb can one be? Seriously, its mind boggling. Must be a troll with zero science and math background. I wish they were here to hear me laugh. They cannot accept reality.

BioBanker

If you only knew how wrong you are! You cannot read or comprehend.

Nobody here thinks they’re saving the world by driving EVs. If you choose certain EVs, the incentives wipe out the premium price, making the EV cost nothing more than the gas counterpart. Then you save $0.10 per km in running costs.

If the EV costs no more than the gas counterpart, and it costs 10% of what the ICE costs to run (less actually), it’s freeish to run and has no upfront costs (for the EV over the gas car). Get it, yet?

I’m out. Enjoy trying to convince people with actual experience about what they’re talking about that they’re wrong because Ethiopia doesn’t have charging stations on every corner. Lol. So nuts.

Gregster

I have the ICE Mini S and EV. Here are some actual numbers

mixed use the gas car is around 9.8l/100km and EV around 18kwh/100km

ICE
91 is 1.86/L let’s say 18.25$ to drive 100km

Ev
kwh is around 8c and let’s round up to 18.5kwh. 1.48$ to drive 100km

No_snivelling

I too am out. There is no point presenting proven facts and science to those that hate EV's. The haters ignore the facts and science and continue repeating baseless talking points and using extremes like never, always, can't won't etc. No regard for the fact that never means more than a billion years.

IXLR8

What are these proven facts? I am all ears, but take it all into account financially.

The fact that I need to spend $20,000 more for a Nissan Leaf (long range) or Tesla 3, both cars I have gone on-line to, when compared to similar sized ICE vehicles. I can buy a lot of gas for $20,000, like 8+ years worth. But for some reason, nobody answers to that.

The fact that the advertized range is probably less since that is based on a 100% charge when new and as one member here mentioned, they only charge to 80% for a faster charge. I know all that having run a battery lab for over 5 years. And I am not willing to accept less than 500 km range as a minimum. Hell, my motorcycles do that.

The fact that the range after 10 years is substantially less if your EV has the going mileage of 200,000 kms. I have kept cars for 16 years....guess I would need a new expensive battery long before that. My 23 year old Honda is still running at 330,000 kms in the hands of a Porsche friend.

So what are these proven facts we are talking about in the real world?

Onami

Honest query for help with the math using the Mini example. Full disclosure that I know VERY little about EV's and I have nothing against them if it makes financial sense to buy one.

Cooper S ICE = $36,790 plus tax. S EV = $45,590 - $5,000 rebate = $40,590 plus tax, charging station and install. I've been told that EV's have an 8-10 year battery life and then are scrapped. ICE cars last 15 years if taken care of. Running costs for 20,000 km/year based on data above in thread: ICE = $3,650, EV = $296. I don't know what the mtce costs of each would be. So, about $5,000 more plus tax and charger to buy the EV, but $26,832 lower energy/fuel costs over 8 years = maybe $20,000 cheaper for EV over 8 years? Doubt the residual value of the ICE would be equal to this amount. Does that make sense???

SToronto

There is a point there about battery degradation. A YouTuber who was monitoring data about their Taycan came across this inside 12 months from new. Capacity reduction. Would be interesting to see data on this. Capacity degradation and related range maximums then eventually replacement battery costs. Though unlikely for the first owner.

some more time and it’ll all be baked better than it is today.