911 Rod

Can someone explain to me how maintenance costs are less than a comparable ICE vehicle? Don't the wheels go round and round?

gcurnew

I'm not a candidate for an EV until a manufacturer makes a two-seat electric sports car weighing less than 3500 pounds at a price that doesn't trigger more than a few $k in luxury tax, and is preferably under $100k out the door. The EV would have to equal or eclipse the overall performance level - lateral acceleration, braking and acceleration - of my 992 and my GR Supra 3.0 - to be a candidate for a parking spot. Saving money on fuel isn't important to me, nor do I have any brand loyalty with respect to EVs. Porsche's Taycan is dismally disappointing as an overall driving tool (WAY too heavy and I have zero need for four doors or a back seat). The 718 EVs may meet my performance criteria but it appears the price point will be well into 6 figures. I expect another EV brand - perhaps one that doesn't currently exist - will eventually step up to the plate and build what this and I suspect many other enthusiasts would consider a viable replacement for their ICE sports car(s). We aren't there yet.

LastMezger

No:
-oil changes
-filter changes
-plugs
-alternator
-engine coolant or radiator
-water pump (thought there is a cooling system for the battery...in the case of Tesla integrated with cabin heat/cool)
-brakes last the life of the car with regenerative braking (or until the pads fall apart from corrosion)
-no exhaust system or emissions controls
-and a zillion other bits and bobs
-electric motors are maintenance free...likely for the life of the car

What you will do is wear through tires faster than a comparably sized vehicle though a Model Y is 4,400lbs which is about the same as Macan. Rivian R1T at almost 8,000lbs or Hummer EV at 9,000lbs...well...

BioBanker

Incentives in BC are $10k ($5k fed and $5k BC) so that wipes out the difference between the EV and gas Mini for those of us in BC. Plus, if your timing is good, the Province will give you a ChargePoint charger (free, only pay tax on it- about $125) under the ZapIt program.

I don’t think that EVs are scrapped at 10years. Quick look on autotrader and there are plenty of 2012 Leafs forsale (with first gen batteries for cheap) and the newer 2015 Leafs which show remaining battery life say they’re around 90%. Roughly 1% battery life degradation per year it seems.

I’ve been of the view that used EV values would be impacted by Moore’s Law - so far hasn’t happened.

997turbocab

There is lots of Data of EV's being scrapped, especially after accidents.

And just to confirm 2 points here...1 you are trusting autotrader ad's for battery degradation to try and make your point, and 2 you believe that something must be a good idea because the government has to pay you a tax rebate to buy it? Are you on Covid booster shot #90 as well? LOL (Sorry wrong thread but I couldn't resist)

BioBanker

Autotrader add saying battery is at 90% is as easy to confirm as mileage - easier actually because mileage can be messed with! What does the dash say? 90%! Even if it’s 80% after 10years, that does not equal scrap. Even 50% doesn’t.

My only claim or good idea is me saving $0.10 (at least) per km driven in the EV vs the ICE, with $0 incremental cost upfront vs ICE.

The people telling me that I’m not saving $2k-$3k a year by driving the EV vs ICE sometimes are hilarious. It’s my own car and I know how much gas I’m not putting in it.

997turbocab

50% isn't scrap? How do you justify getting 50% of the battery life is acceptable?

Adamant1971

Nope, it is not that simple. When manufacturers allow basic diagnostic features for the consumer to review charge cycles, dead cells, overheating events, charge available, etc., then yes it will be that simple. Currently, the only way to be sure is to drive the vehicle on a full charge down to below 20% and then do the math. How many used car dealers or private sellers are going to allow buyers to do that?

I am currently looking for a used PHEV and I am finding this to be a major hurdle with sellers and dealers. So much so that I am ready to throw in the towel, as I am not taking a gamble on any car, EV, or ICE.

At the end of the day, EVs have their place in the current market but the technology still has a long long way to go.

Onami

From the various articles that I read at lunch...Tesla batteries are warrantied for 8 years and 70%. Degradation on average of 2.3% per year. Battery life should be 8 -12 years, but not enough data available to say what % will go beyond that. Replacement battery cost is most often greater than the value of the car after the warranty period, so that is where the "scrapped" notion comes from. Comments that future batteries should be cheaper and last longer.

BioBanker

Scrap car means worthless. Its it worth less at 50% capacity but it is not worthless (nothing, $0). Its a rare occasion when I need more than 100km in range in a day. My EV could go down to about 40% capacity and it wouldnt make a difference to me 95% of the days.

Regardless, we are extrapolating. I believe that the batteries are warrantied across the board for 8 years and even 10 years in CA. So I dont see that EVs are scrap after 10 because the batteries are all garbage.

Heres a study that showed that after 10 years, 10 year old Tesla batteries are at 80% today. Those are the old crappy batteries and anything newer is going to perform better. I guess I will find out personally but I believe that saying EVs are scrap at 10years is misinformation. I bet theyre still at 90% capacity at 10years - plenty. The biggest factor might prove to be that in ten years the new EVs are cheaper than today and going 10x the distance...ie way better at a cheap price.....

No idea if this is a reliable study

Adamant1971

Yes, the tech has come a long way mainly due to active cooling which extends battery life greatly over what we see in phones, laptops, etc. What becomes hard is when you are comparing a couple of the same vehicles but they may have had different uses over their lifetime and thus it can be a challenge to confirm which battery pack has more life left in it. PPI's are going to need to evolve as well.

BioBanker

Many models will tell you exactly what the charge capacity is left and what the battery health is.. Tesla has an app called TeslaFi that will also do it.

Another way to do it, plug in an OBD reader that has the capability of telling you exactly how many Wh are left. Divide that by the percent of battery charge shown remaining and compare that to what 100% is for that car. Or you can simply look at the Wh shown on the OBD at 100% charge .

No need to do long range tests IMO.

PHEV are the best way to go these days in my mind. Once I dont need 2 cars (excluding my fun car) in the household, thats what Ill get - one with enough battery to go 100km but with a gas engine to bail me out when I want to go further.

No_snivelling

The four million mile EV battery is in labs being tested in Halifax. Tests conducted on this new tech battery over the past 4.5 years while being cycled continuously show only a 5% degradation.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...h=658c144672f4

Pags993

As mentioned earlier, do you really think they are just gonna lay down and die? 😂

https://www.reuters.com/business/sus...ehicles%20(EVs).

Gregster

Cleaner fuels isn’t a bad idea but now their arms
are twisted forcing it. Better idea than converting classics to EV as well. That being said we did Montreal to Ottawa yesterday and Ottawa fast charging network is pretty abysmal. We are kicking the can down the road in North America and relying on “private companies” forced through lawsuits for example is stupid… looking at your electrify America/Canada. I don’t mind my tax dollars being used to fund a charging network

The market is in a shift though and BEV registrations are continually going up. BEV will outsell diesels by end of the year in EU https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-28-8-in-march-battery-electric-13-9-market-share/