mark kibort

I have a wrench, yes.... i do it by hand because its easier to do it with a speed gun, and breaker bar and my torquing has been checked... it's even and in the 5% of spec range.
Im a one man show at the track , often, so i have to do all my tire changes myself. i work quickly, and this is something I do to save time and is more than adequate as far as torquing accuracy.
so to answer your question... I've checked my work before and its always between 90 and 95ft-lbs .

mark kibort

the rears might be a challenge to get them to temp to bed. however, you can bed the rears on jack stands and using the brakes and throttle. Just go through the normal bedding process on an open road with no traffic and do some 80mph to 40mph slow downs. If you are skilled enough, use left foot braking and some throttle .. makes the process a little easier and less dangerous on the hyway. (you are slowing the car with brakes while keeping the throttle on. the process eliminates dangerous tire grip and slippage on high rate decels). do that 4-6 times and the pads will be bedded enough to safely finish them off on your first lap or two at the track.

Slakker

Thanks Jake! Couple of quick questions. I understand everyone’s point on the r-comps because streets communicate their limits progressively. But what are the disadvantages of upgrading suspension (which is 17 y/o and needs it) or going to bigger brakes in the near future?

Also, on the safety upgrades, I’m all for them. But my challenge is I still need a back seat at times for when both of my sons are with me. Any ideas on this?

Sump kit ordered and switching to XP9 oil based upon another’s recommendation. PO replaced IMS, RMS and clutch. I’ve replaced AOS (standard one unfortunately), water pump, new Motul600, and moved to spin on oil filter. Any maintenance I’m missing for track prep?

Slakker

Cool. Sounds like a plan. Thanks Mark!

NYC993

I think the point is that the whole car is designed as a package. Replacing worn out parts is one thing (preventive maitenance) going to new shocks, springs, larger brakes is another. 911 is perfectly fine for learning and even racing in stock form. If you are making the car faster, then you need better safety equipment, which also works as a system. You can't just slap a harness with stock seats and if you need to use rear seats on the street roll bar is out of the question.

Once you have seat time you will know what your car is lacking.

One more point on "better brakes". They will be limited by tire grip. Better tires will generage higher force for which you need a harness to keep you in the seat which goes back to the safety system.

Better seats and harnesses with roll bar was the best upgrade that keeps me planted in the car so I don't have to hold on to the steering wheel for dear life and can focus on what the car is doing. Most importantly have fun!

Aspen Autosports

Staying on a street tire for a few events is definitely the way to go. Once you have those tires squealing and sliding in almost every turn I would say you are ready to step up to something a little more sticky. I typically like to see our customers step into the Toyo R888 or Nitto NT-01 as they are a step up from street tires yet are still very predictable. After you get to the limits of these tires then you are ready for a Hoosier or something of that nature. I like to progressively step our customers up once they reach the limits. I find it is the best scenario that allows the customer to reach the limits of the each tire.

Stepping up the larger brakes will slow the car much faster, if you are still on street tires with larger brakes it is possible to overcome the adhesion properties of the tire (locking up the tire). So you will essentially have to use less braking force and therefore teach yourself improper technique.

The same holds true for the suspension. If you upgrade the dampeners and springs you will end up with a stiffer car and have the ability of reaching much higher cornering G's. You will end up having to make a compromise in driving technique to drive at the limit of the inferior tire rather than the limit of the suspension. Now what I will advise is to dial in your alignment as best as possible with that stock suspension, base your alignment on tire wear. As you get closer to the limits of the street tires you will notice that the outer edge of the tires will wear and you will need more camber, this may not be achievable with the stock suspension components so you may need to upgrade something. We would typically recommend adjustable lower control arms and rear toe links, you will then be able to dial in the alignment and maximize tire wear. This will have little impact on your driving technique but will only reduce the cost of the consumables.

I understand your need for the rear seats, and that is a difficult challenge to over come. As much as I don't like them you could install a harness bar, they are fairly straight forward to install and can be removed. You could also install a set of seats with harness's. The seats could also be removed and the stock seats reinstalled. This would increase your work load to get to and from the track but it is certainly possible to do. Unfortunately I really do not have a better answer on how to overcome that challenge. Maybe some other RL members will have a solution. For the best response on this another thread is in order.

Your maintenance prep is right on with what you should be doing. Depending on how old your spark plugs and ignition coils are you may want to replace those.

Slakker

That makes perfect sense. Best explanation I've ever heard. Thank you.

Aspen Autosports

Your welcome and thank you for the kind words. Good luck with the car, go fast, have fun, and be safe. If you need help in any way you know how to reach us.

mglobe

I've only bedded in one set of pads in my life. A set of Pagids. After that I switched to PFC's on my cars, and have always just put them in (usually oriented correctly), and driven. Never ever had an issue. I recently switched to Carbotech on the Miata, and followed my same procedure, i.e. Swap and go. No issues. Not sure what I am doing wrong.

mark kibort

just to add what Jake mentioned, dont worry too much about changing braking components. its also good to work within the stock brake limits, just as its good to work with the street tires initially. stock brakes are MORE than capable of handling a street tire to the limit of tire adhesion in slowing the car down. after all the limiiting factor is the tires, not the brakes. (unless you are abusing them) so, it teaches you to modulate braking force at the pedal , just as you willl with more stick with a race tire and larger brakes . the main reason you go to larger brakes is to get more heat dissipation capabilities , the stock brakes are more than capable to handle anything you can toss at them on street tires and much safer as welll initially. However, you should use a racing brake fluid as well as better than stock pads. depending on your skill level and track, you can easily over cook a stock pad and get in to a dangerous fade situation that would be near impossible to get into with a racing type pad. (or dual purpose high performance pad) they are relatively cheap and a no brainer to equip your car with. However, dont take on the bedding process on your first track day... Have them well bedded before you end up at the track.... you dont want that added distraction.
also, forget about the hoosier route unless you are trying to take off tenths of seconds off your lap times. R888s as suggested can be used on the street and track, as well as have a real racing tire feel to them. a LOT more grip compared to any street tire. this tire will be durable and allow you too progress as a driver to a much higher level. they are MUCH cheaper to run and last 4-5 times longer than the Hoosier would , and marginal advantages when you are DE'iing or just starting to time trial at the track. as you get more serious, a shaved version of the tire from a racing shop, will be a logical next step in performance. (where it comes new looking like a slick, and the tread is not that visible)

Slakker

OK. Great info. The Hoosiers I have have about 10-12 heat cycles on them, 5 of which were AutoX. The way it was explained to me is that they would be a couple of seconds slower than a fresh set but good for learning to use slicks. True or false? The tires are still in good shape including the sides.

Im going to be getting 3-4 days a month in between DE and AutoX so hope to progress past my current level quickly. But I will get my local chief instructor's opinion of my driving prior to moving past my PSS's (which I still love.)

The R-888 look really good and come in the size I need. They will be my first actual r-compound purchase when I'm ready.

mark kibort

If the hoosiers are used and cheap, have fun with them. yes, they might be a little slower than a new set for you , but for what you are doing it shouldnt matter. street tires are better for just getting the feel of the car.. where the break -away points are and how to handle the car as it gets past the grip points.... this tends to be more blurred with a hoosier.. even a used one. you have to go a lot faster and make more obvious mistakes to have the tire break free. I guess the point is , you can get better practice at slower speeds to reach the limits of the street tire, with more forgiveness so its a little safer and you will learn more. the quality of the tire now, is probably like the R888 if shaved. have fun... trash on the Hoosiers until you start seeing cords and then grab a new set of R888s or equiv to continue your progress.

as a note: When people talk about forgiveness of a street tire vs a race tire (and you may already know this) but the difference is in the slip angle effectiveness. this means, when you over drive the fronts or the rears, it will break free and could slide out, without as much feel or warning with a race /DOT tire. on a street tire, that angle is greater, so you will get a push or a loose feeling that you can control and reign back in easier. once the DOT slick starts to slide, you might not be able to correct and save it as easy.

Glyndellis

Just a small note, maybe a little late as the boys have moved from bolt torque to tires. When you tighten the bolts, you are trying to generate a preload. The preload is the crucial value and can only be approximated using a torque as the toque must stretch the bolt and also overcome friction in the threads and between the bolt and wheel.

winders

See post#40.

mark kibort

you are not wrong in anyway in post 40. my only contribution here is that the torque on the studs holding the wheel should be even to avoid the potential for rotor warping.. repeated higher than torque spec use can damage wheels of lower quality. using steel lugs increases the torque ability and many use air tool guns which can increase the torque on the lugs and usually if a torque wrench is used, the min values are fine, but the max is never checked. (that can be a problem)
my use of 5% lower than the spec, is not dangerous , nor have i EVER had a lug nut be removed with less than the torque it was set at... EVER , and thats 20 years of doing this. the spec is designed to insure that over time, and many heat cycles that the lugs cant come loose. at the track we care about the correct stretch of the stud and proper compression force on the wheel face.
at 5% less its well with in safety ranges, and my reasoning is that its just a little easier on the wheels and on my arms. I dont think anyone should lose sleep over a lug tightened at 90ftlbs vs 95ft lbs at the track. the lugs are not going anywhere.
but not to get too derailed by the person that first brought up the correction, yes, 96ft-lbs is the spec.... but that's for aluminum lugs on steel studs.
i would tend to guess that there is more stretch with a steel lug at that torque than with the aluminum lug nut do to the softer metal deformation.... no? maybe not. maybe the spec is the value it is because the aluminum nut can deform and come loose. either way, we are shaving hairs here.