mark kibort

its a simple distance to slow down equation.

this is a teaching technique Ive used successfully.

say you are 10% too hot at the point of turn in. you early apex, you have 50% more track area and distance to slow without using much turning g forces to get to a speed where you can complete the turn.
You attempt to late apex and you are over speed, you have half the distance to slow to turn in speed, and then you are forced to make a 90degree turn at over the cars rated capability.

on the track, in the car, it makes perfect sense with repeatable results.
this is not racer advice, beginning student advice
think of it as trail braking without the turning the wheel.

TXE36

So in 38 minutes your record has increased from 15 years to 20 years?

And why do I suspect your "exploding brake line" may have had something to do with your maintenance habits.

Do you really think that no other racer has raced without touching other cars in the last 20 years? Or was that 15 years?

You truly are a fool and your check bounced a third time.

-Mike

mark kibort

you are not reading again... comprehension is everything.
15 years of racing 5 more years of TT and DEing
and there are not many that engage in Wheel to wheel racing in packs of cars the same level of performance that can claim this.

well, there are how many parts on a car?.. older cars cant possibly have everything changed out, so we use our heads.. i was under the impression that the old rubber lines were better than failures ive heard of with braided lines. but, that was a miscalculation. one of my very few. so, never again.
but no one got hurt from the failure, nor did i even go off track (turn 2 laguna)

ive had cars contact me, but it was folks hitting me that have lost control of their vehicles. not me with mine..... i have only had a door to door rub, but that was never determined to be fault of mine or his.... the other hits Ive had was with cars loosing control and hitting me WCGT, . one was after a point- by an then the driver lost control and took us both out as i was passing. (bad wreck) a few little rear end fender benders over the years, but none of them were my fault . The nose of my car has always been pristine!
that's over 240 race days Winders! (over15 years) the other 5 years were DE time trial FYI

noturavgm

Rennlist Racing & Drivers Education forum. Where sound advice and OT calamity face off in nearly every thread.

TXE36

By definition then you admit your first claim above was bogus. Good thing I didn't accept your rubber check.

Are you really so dense that you cannot see you made a claim you had no hope of proving? Hint: This is where "I was wrong" would come in handy.

-Mike

mark kibort

mike you win!!!! I thought I made a mistake once... but.... I was mistaken!

mike, have a nice night! got to start working on the car now, rather jawing with my internet racing nuts.

edit: mike, if I had no at fault issues on track, EVER, racing, then that's the high bar. the only thing anyone can do is tie! so am I wrong?

sbelles

So, you teach beginning students to early apex? How many of them have crashed over the years?

mark kibort

not a single driver ive worked with has had anything but good luck with it. and its saved many poorly judged high speed approaches. this is not for every turn....or every driver. but its a technique that works at turn 2 laguna, 11 sears, 1 thunderhill.......... those kind of approaches

you might want to open your mind a little on the concept. most racers practice this almost all the time. its very easy to do and makes a lot of sense. late apex , in my mind is an advanced move. most new drvivers just get themselves in trouble running at speed , late apexing (remember this is only some turns.) early apexing , after a high speed straight, into tight turns, gives drivers 40% more time and distance to slow down, if they got the turn in speed incorrect. (its a basic trig function root 2)

Veloce Raptor

OMG

Late apex is an advanced technique and early apex is for beginners?

Have you gone mad?

PLEASE...EVERYBODY HERE SHOULD IGNORE THIS DANGEROUS TRIPE

audipwr1

Honestly I am not sure why you guys do this back and forth every single day over and over again

The guy has an opinion, leave it be and it will go away. If you and the other coach literally just stopped responding to Marks comments these threads would not go on for ever and the good questions being asked would be answered and done

No other place on this forum does this back and forth go on and on

Veloce Raptor

On one hand you're correct.

On the other hand, his "opinions" may get some unsuspecting person here hurt or killed. We have an obligation to look out for our fellow drivers. Wouldn't you agree?

mark kibort

again.. you cant seem to comprehend the point. I kept it only a sentence or two.

let me make the the point again. early apex on CERTAIN turns is useful for beginners , in that it buys them more slow down distance IF they get it wrong. yes, we almost always want to teach traditional lines, but on some turns. (turn 2 laguna for example)... if you get the speed wrong (too fast) and you try and late apex.. ... what happens... you can be in a dangerous situation of either insisting on steering to the apex or not have enough distance before off track to slow down. early apex on those particular turns allows for more safety margin to slow down through the turn, do to the gradual turn required to do so, and the longer distances to slow in the turn and through it.

its not white or black Dave. its technique ive perfected with students and it seems to work well and keep everyone on track , always!

Now go back to self promotion and your phony resume' .
Dave.. have a little respect here. you are not a racer, yet you are on a racing forum.. This is a Porsche racing discussion board. you don't race.... you don't even own a Porsche... just give it a rest would you !!?

mark kibort

and that's where I come in Dave..
your contradictions about techniques during a brake failure, allowing shufflesteering, or now to shift a car into and out of a turn. not to mention your complete lack of mechanical /physics knowledge can get someone killed.... and is not the fast way or safest way around the track. most all of us , as racers know this, but for some reason, you think your lack of experience in those critical areas can advise new and seasoned racers to the contrary.
so, If you read my advice.. understand it.... you will see that it's all about being safer and being more in control at all times on the track... regardless of circumstance!

and this is the point ive been trying to make with him for years... at least with the "other coach" there is a level of respect and opinion. Dave is only here to self promote . this is a discussion forum.. we are here to discuss.. Dave is only about his way and his way of looking at things. masked behind "safety "advice , is just a diarrhea of self promotion

audipwr1

My mom told me never to believe what I read online

In reality though a newbie isn't going to know early / late / or frankly apex at all - so not sure the advice really matters

Someone a day older probably has enough common sense not to go turning in at warp speed super early and expect great results on the way out

It's not anyone's job online to correct all the errors on a forum - it would be a more than full time job

Carry on just one dude's opinion here

noturavgm

I hope you make this distinction to your students.

There is a big difference between "you should early apex" and, "if shtf in the braking zone and we need extra real estate to whoa-up this car, you should early apex"