Sebring brake failure
#77
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Nothing suggested here is in ANY way dangerous. its basic driving skills at the track. you lose your brakes, blip downshift as soon as you can and ride it, steer it out, IN GEAR, not in neutral. Leaving the car in neutral is very dangerous and has NOTHING to do with track surface! (bumpy or not)
#78
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I won't second guess what the driver did in the few seconds he had to react since I don't have all the facts and never will unless he decides to share them. Bottom line is that no one was injured.
It almost sounds like the car shut off. Listen closely to the video. Once he stops at the entrance to the Chateau, it sounds like he fires the car back up before driving through the parking lot.
*Listening watching it again and using my fancy Apple earbuds for audio, there are several seconds where I don't hear the V8 rumble at idle indicating the clutch was in. Sounds like three attempts to re-fire the car during the whole sequence of events.
It almost sounds like the car shut off. Listen closely to the video. Once he stops at the entrance to the Chateau, it sounds like he fires the car back up before driving through the parking lot.
*Listening watching it again and using my fancy Apple earbuds for audio, there are several seconds where I don't hear the V8 rumble at idle indicating the clutch was in. Sounds like three attempts to re-fire the car during the whole sequence of events.
watch it again. its clearly running.. he motors a little after he passes the truck and makes another left into the hotel turn off road. (after jumping two curbs)
NO the car didnt just "fire back up" it was already running. there was no starter noise. he was coasting , put it in gear and then idled to the hotel . drove around awhile and then made his way back to the track, while going back on the highway, going the wrong direction for 100 yards with no brakes.
Last edited by mark kibort; 03-29-2016 at 02:48 PM.
#79
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yes, "nothing to do with it" . even more reason to keep it in gear for rearward force control. once you put a car in neutral, you lose a valuable steering and stabiltiy control. you should know this.
DAVE, you are just looking for a fight here. the point is, yes, anytime you lose your brakes, you blip downshift as soon as you can. AND you dont put it in neutral or put the clutch to the floor.. thats it .... really! why are you being such an axx about it? you have lost your brakes and ended up in the beach, i have lost my brakes and made one of the fastest and slowest turns in racing..... who's technique was right?
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#80
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OMG
Shaking my head.
Knock yourself out, Mark. I just hope nobody follow your advice.
Clearly linzman is correct about you and Tristan , Peter, Frank, me, and so many others are wrong about this situation in this corner on this track ...
Shaking my head.
Knock yourself out, Mark. I just hope nobody follow your advice.
Clearly linzman is correct about you and Tristan , Peter, Frank, me, and so many others are wrong about this situation in this corner on this track ...
#81
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This corner of the track, has noting to do with the technique that can save your car or life upon brake failure. THE GUY PUT THE CAR IN NEUTRAL ? dont you see how insane that is? what, he did this because the surface was bumpy? common. again, he had 5 seconds watch the video. he could have bliped and shifted twice and had that car almost stopped welll before the gate and easily made the alternate turn 7 right if he did it right.
so yes, you , Peter, especially tristan, (if he thinks he did the best he could) are absolutely incorrect! without question. anyone that races here would know this.
you and peter just have to be right.. im trying to make others safe. big difference.
Again, if folks DO follow my advice, especially in this situation, you would end up slowing and have more control in doing so. its a easy act to perform.
going through a turn runout in neutral is almost suicide! why take the chance of hurting the car or you if you dont have too. leave it in gear at least! at best, downshift by blip and shift to the lowest gears you can. the topping force and slowing distance will surprise you ....
dont take my word for it Dave, try it!
#84
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With headphones on you can hear 3 times where it sounds like he blips the throttle after re firing the car. Reminds me of a NASCAR race after the call to start engines. You don't really hear the starter turn just a whap of engine noise. Hopefully the driver chime in.
#85
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Sheesh...
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#86
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Im not sayng you are right, but that is the OTHER risk too. put the clutch in and the engine dies, and you lose another tool to save yourself.
when you have brake failure.. it should be "blip, shift" and then steer!, repeat as low as you can go in the gears. you will be stopped in short order!
#87
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If the car died when he pushed the clutch in when beginning to downshift he would have had to focus on steering (without the help of power steering) around the bend before attempting to re-fire the car. This is all speculation on my part but I swear when listening with good ear buds it sounds like the car shuts off.
#88
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On the 'Vette, the left front rotor exploded.
You can see it in the video.
That meant the right front brake worked and the left front did NOT.
That began the car spinning to the right (clockwise, looking from above), pivoting the car on the functioning right front SLOWING tire.
Johnny O said initially on the radio that the "right front brake blew up," but it was the left front rotor that exploded.
While Johnny O surely helped slow the car any way he could (going down through the gears, I can GUARANTEE you he wasn't "blipping"), the spin that slowed the car was begun by the failure and the dynamics OF the failure, not by the driver...
I love him to death, and there are very few drivers with the "heart" of Johnny O, but this was not "fine driving" that caused the damage to be less, it was automatic response after the failure and loss of control started it...
You can see it in the video.
That meant the right front brake worked and the left front did NOT.
That began the car spinning to the right (clockwise, looking from above), pivoting the car on the functioning right front SLOWING tire.
Johnny O said initially on the radio that the "right front brake blew up," but it was the left front rotor that exploded.
While Johnny O surely helped slow the car any way he could (going down through the gears, I can GUARANTEE you he wasn't "blipping"), the spin that slowed the car was begun by the failure and the dynamics OF the failure, not by the driver...
I love him to death, and there are very few drivers with the "heart" of Johnny O, but this was not "fine driving" that caused the damage to be less, it was automatic response after the failure and loss of control started it...
now, try to wrap your braiin around this Peter, this doesnt mean that if he was going straight in the senaero we are discussing he wouldnt keep the car straight and slow the car by downshifts and blipping downshifts as well.... two different situations... can you appreciate that.
instictively, i would hope that all of us would have dont that to slow the car down!
I know this has turned into a childish argument with Kibort, but this is a serious subject.
I just don't think that you can just so easily say that downshifting,spinning,or purposefully crashing into the tires is not the best course of action sometimes.
Was Johnny O wrong?
Full Contact - Johnny O'Connell Loses Brakes - ALMS - ESPN - GoPro - Racing - Sports Cars - USCR - YouTube
I just don't think that you can just so easily say that downshifting,spinning,or purposefully crashing into the tires is not the best course of action sometimes.
Was Johnny O wrong?
Full Contact - Johnny O'Connell Loses Brakes - ALMS - ESPN - GoPro - Racing - Sports Cars - USCR - YouTube
edit: watching it several times again, and looking at the high speed entrance capability of turn17, i might have been inclined to downshift and not spin the car. there is a LOT of real estate on the right.... there is a chance he could have slowed near as much by not spinning and actually made the turn. thats major monday morning quarterbacking, and maybe a coin toss left for the guy at the wheel at that time of the situation (brake rotor explode or brake line, etc)
there is 6 seconds before wall impact after rotor explodes. the question is would downshifting alone get him to a near turn in speed?
#89
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I dont think it matters much .. even more the reason for him to have blip downshifts.. he was a runnaway train once the clutch went in. again, there is 6 seconds of time available to slow the car down with the engine. he just rode it out and got lucky. if he had killed the engine, you would have heard the stater motor anyway, which i didnt hear at all. regardless, downshifting would have saved the front end of the car.
#90
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His approach speed is between 154-159 mph. Turn in speed is 69-74 mph.
And when the rotor exploded, the pistons came out of the caliper and he had no pressure to the other brake(s) after that, either.
Monday morning quarterbacking, indeed.