My wife lets me out to do dumb stuff, but just wants me back so the lawn gets mowed.

 

This is a bit of a bump for this thread, but going into my second DE "season" (having only completed two DE events last year) in the Green run group, I'd like to say that this thread was the most valuable thread I've ever read as a newcomer to DE.
To hear people with combined experience of thousands of track hours weigh in on safety components of DE events both in the car and on the track should be required reading for EVERY Green group member.
I feel I.m much better prepared to make responsible safety decisions both prior to getting to the track (as in equipment decisions), and once on the track with my instructor.

You've covered a lot of the subjects I was looking for answers to (will I look like a dweeb showing up in a fire suit?), and I'll reread the entire thread again in a few months as I'm sure my perspective may change.

The interesting thing is I'm a professional firefighter, and served on a Heavy Rescue Squad for many, many years both as a firefighter and an officer, which included hundreds, if not thousands of Auto Extrication incidents, some involving fire, so I've witnessed first hand on a daily basis the effects of high speed automobile impact outcomes.

It was interesting to read the thread and absorb the collective knowledge from everyone with so much track experience.

Thanks again, and I can't stress enough that DE Instructors might wish to consider this thread "required reading" after their students complete IDE courses.

 

Thanks for bumping this up, I just read the whole thing during my plane ride home tonight. But I have to say, this last post summed it up well.

 

My hope is that every Green group newbie reads this thread, and bumps it when they do. Timeless info, and my thinking is it will be as relevant 10 years from now as it is today.

 

Thoughts on Schroth Quick Fit Pro with a HANS for a street car with no cage/roll bar? Better than factory 3 point or worse?

 

I personally think it's safer

 

What a brilliant idea- for seats with removable headrests.

My 997.1 T4S seats don't have any way of securing the shoulder straps, so, for me it's a non-starter- it looks like it's the Simpson Hybrid system for me.

However, I love this concept!!

so.... if I did a drivers seat replacement .... I could incorporate the Hans device.... hmmmmm....

 

Damn.

After what I've seen this week, best for all to "safety up."

No matter what kind of track day or DE you choose to participate in...

 

Thanks to this thread, at least I have a little bit better understanding of the components necessary to ensure a greater degree of safety when running a stock 997.1 down a back straight at over 200km/hr.

It's also cool that longtime instructors posted here about their thoughts on safety, as well as competitive racers. The scope of experience that weighed in was really impressive. Thanks again to all contributors, on behalf of present and future "Greenies".

 

Please elaborate.

Cheers

Matt

 

I would like to hear some of your comments or ideas about in car fire systems. For example in trans am (a professional series) I see fire bottles mounted vertical. Inside firebottles is a flop tube that when laying down horizontal the tube flops to the the lowest point and if needed all the AFFF comes out as needed. If a car is upside down the tube flops by gravity the other way and the fire bottle can expel 100% of its contents. So when a bottle is mounted vertical all is good until the car is upside down. Does the foaming action upside down effectively expel all the contents of the fire bottle since the flop tube orifice is not submerged in the AFFF? Similarly, I would think ideally you want the bottle laying flat horizontal with bottle head facing to the back of the car or bottle laying perpendicular to the chassis centerline so if you hit the button as you are braking heavy to a stop you get 100% action of the fire bottle? True or false?

Then I'd lie to hear where you would put the nozzles for the driver? I have seen youtube videos of guys setting off their bottles as a test. 90% of installs seem to have driver nozzle over the knees. When the bottles go off on video the guys get wet knees. Is that really going to be useful in a fire?

 

No roll bar no 5/6 pt harness that simple.

Most of the foam systems are slick when they get on something. With the nozzle pointed from the waist down it covers the floor board, fire wall and sometimes shift lever where most fires get into the car, these areas are covered with the waist down system. It also more importantly keeps your gloves dry so that you can do the other required stuff like get out of your harness, out the door, etc.

 

I suppose there's a real division between things that enhance safety without a significant impact on performance and things that enhance safety by deliberately limiting performance. The conflict comes when the two approaches are mixed together without being clear about what's going on.

Aside from increasing weight, true safety modifications don't reduce performance, and of course it's improving performance of both the equipment and the driver that's the goal of the sport. Some concessions are thought to be reasonable in pursuit of safety as long as they don't unreasonably restrict performance and they're applied fairly. Roll cages are heavy but there's a distinct cost/benefit argument for requiring them. Race suits are hot, but they're generally cooler than burning gasoline. Fire suppression slows everyone down equally but not that much.

But the tire argument suffers because it pursues safety at a significant cost to performance. To argue a driver can be safer by using lower performance tires is no different than arguing that driver will be safer driving a slower car. Both may be true, but it categorically defeats the purpose of the sport; taken to its logical extreme, the solution is to not drive fast, it's the only way to be sure

So that's my two cents. I stumbled on this thread because I'm getting serious about making some design decisions about the safety systems I'm planning for a 944S2 I've been building the past couple of years and a lot of good points are made.

One question I did have; I read quite a bit of early talk about fire suits, with several people talking about expense as a concern. As I understand from my experience with PCA rules, a nomex suit is fine? Maybe there aren't a lot of pilots on this list so I thought I'd mention you can buy a serviceable nomex flight suit (and even underwear if you'd like) for under 100 bucks on eBay. I just use my old NASA (not the club, the space agency) suit. Beats heck out of cotton soaked in borax (that's just got to be nasty?) Is there some reason other people aren't doing that? They aren't all that fancy looking, but they work and they're cheap.

 

It's a 4 point street legal DOT approved harness, that has been independently tested with a HANS on a sled with anti submarine tech built in, not a standard 5/6 point racing harness.

 

You know, I would have said the same thing. No roll bar or proper seat? No 5-6 point harnesses or SFI 38.1 head and neck restraint.

But looking over the information sent to me by Alex Bell, National PCA specifies an accepted 4-point harness WITH a specific Porsche seat option for a FEW listed models as being acceptable for PCA DE events...