ProCoach

But, as the participant, you're the one that controls much of your exposure to risk. That risk, as you cited in your previous examples, increases the closer together people are, on-track.

The frustration I hear vocalized from numerous intermediate, advanced and even instructors contributes to poor decision making processes and increased exposure to risk.

alexaqui

Absolutely agree. I am always amazed at my friends and fellow participants when they express some "red mist" at slow trains, etc. in a DE environment. I have no issues pitting out 2-3 times in a 20 min session to get some clean track time. I do think that the tracks are getting more crowded. 40+ cars on a track like Thunderbolt seems like a lot, especially when there are two levels of drivers on at the same time and a vast disparity between cars.

ProCoach

Yep!

Fixed it for you!

I've raced at Lime Rock with 35 other cars within three seconds of each other, and it's not too bad.

TXE36

Trains are caused by one thing - poor passing discipline. A driver not giving point-bys is a serious offense IMO that can be treated in a number of ways:

1. For a novice instructed group, your instructor should talk to the instructor in the offending car. As novices, it is the instructor's repsoniblity to manage traffic.
2. If in a solo group, note the car number and talk to the guy afterwards. Be nice. Most of the time, the offending person doesn't know they were holding you up. We are all learning. 99% of all passing problems can be solved this way.
3. If talking nicely doesn't work, bring it up with the management chain at the event. They will ususally cover the who during the driver meeting in the "if anybody has concerns etc.." part of the meeting. Worst case, bring it up with the CDI.
4. Bring it up in class.

Finally, there is an art to passing and learning how to communicate well without creating undo risk. My approach is the following:

1. I close to within about a car length just before a passing zone. This works most of the time.
2. If I don't get a point, I'll do it again at the next passing zone.
3. At this point I will start "communicating" more forcefully by getting closer. I will also position my car offset to the left so I'm visible in both the side and inside rear view mirror. This works for all but the worst offenders.
4. I drive a relatively low powered car and it makes for dealing with "straight line studs" a little more difficult. If you stay on these guys, they steal your momentum. The trick is to drop back and get a run on them. Time it such that you are on a full boil as you enter the passing zone and come out off line on the side of the track you wish to pass. I've pulled as far forward as the driver's door before finally getting the point. Your cars position and obvious superior speed usually gets the point across. Do not actually make the pass without the point.
5. Lastly, remember it's a DE. Don't get mad, don't take unnecessary risk, get the car number and have a paddock discussion afterward. If the leading car starts getting really stupid - BACK OFF. It's not a race.

One of the perks of instructing is running in the instructor run group. Passing there is as it should be. I've run personal best laps while being passed and passing other cars.

-Mike

Manifold

The majority of my scariest and most out-of-control moments on track have been when hitting fluids dumped by other cars. IMO, it's not acceptable for people to put others at risk due to generally inadequate maintenance or known and fixable issues with particular cars which can result in dumping fluids.

If you're seeing a high rate of this problem, there could be an issue with inadequate tech at the events you're attending, in terms of official tech procedures and/or a culture which doesn't promote sufficiently vigilant inspection and maintenance of cars.

Again, I'd suggest running with other organizations if the events you're attending appear to be comparatively unsafe for any reason. There are plenty of good options to choose from in the northeast.

Side note: Trains can readily be avoided if event managers address the issue directly and promptly with the individuals causing them. That's Chin's approach, and it works.

TXE36

True. Of the organizations I've participated with Chin is, by far, the least tolerant of trains and that's a feature, not a bug.

Also, if one is see a lot of fluid incidents, something is off about tech inspections.

-Mike

ir_fuel

No you don't.
The "skull cracking" can only happen if you have the front part of the cage installed. As long as it's only the part behind the seats it's ok.

ir_fuel

Never ever saw a tech inspection since I started doing track days with my car.
I saw them when running motorcycles though.

ProCoach

They do things differently in Europe...

ir_fuel

For instance: The Nuerburgring

TXE36

If we are talking Germany, don't street cars go through a thorough inspection just to get street license plates? I thought their street inspection requirements are more stringent than our track tech requirements.

Here in the states, vehicle inspections are more of a revenue generator and a way to sell light bulbs and wiper blades. As far as safety, it's a joke.

I do about 20 events a year, and I can only recall 2-3 occurrences of slick spots from fluid over the year. So not a rare occurrence, but certainly not common either. That said, I had one last weekend and a few years ago I had a weekend ended by one that damaged the car (I was lucky, I could have easily totaled the car). It is very unnerving when the grip just goes away.

-Mike

ProCoach

Yes, TUV requirements are VERY stiff and thorough. As are MOT in the UK. Annual inspections, they are.

For track days in Europe? No checks, just drive!

Hatzenbach

Yeah, but don't wish for it here.
"OK, your aftermarket front lip doesn't have an ABE" (Allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis = the specific part has been tested by a Government agency to work with you specific car model), well you either take if off right now, or we take your license plates off for you right here and keep the car.
The same applies to all aero modifications, rims, suspension, brakes, steering wheels, seats etc. So basically the whole aftermarket is heavily regulated.
I'd guess that 50% of all cars that safely drive on the streets here in the US would be illegal in Germany.
I lived there for 30 years and the mandatory visit to either the TÜV or to DeKra is the stuff that nightmares are made off.

Hatzenbach

The only organization that I know of that are doing tech before every event is PCA.
But even there it's mostly self-tech.

Frank 993 C4S

With PCA, self tech is usually only for instructors.