Toby Pennycuff

Oh boy...... This should be fun.

From the email just received this afternoon:
"General Compliance

Data collection:

-Cars, other than in the GT1-6 and GTP classes, must have provisions for the use of PCA compliance testing data systems on the track and at tech.

1) Cars which came from Porsche with OBD data ports must retain that port in an easily accessible (preferably stock) location and with all its wiring intact (i.e., don't cut any of these wires in order to attach data or other systems).

2) Cars whose model year is 2001 or earlier must have a lead from the tachometer signal input terminal, terminated with a standard ~0.176" insulated female bullet connector, located in a conveniently accessible area below the dash on the passenger side. The connector must have enough slack to be conveniently used and to reach the right side roll cage front hoop upright, but may be lashed up out of the way with a Velcro or Gear Tie or some other easily fastened/unfastened tie (no zip ties, as they have to be cut).

3) All cars must have a source of 12 volt power, accessible as the tachometer lead described above, so that the compliance data systems can be plugged in and operate off of it. Cars must have installed a two wire/pole standard flat trailer type connector (the kind with one protruding male bullet connector, and one insulated female bullet connector). The insulated female connector shall provide the 12V current using the red wire and be protected with a 7.5 ampere fuse, and the other wire shall be attached to a chassis ground. This power lead must be connected to an "always on" circuit in the car - that is, one which is only not powered when the kill switch is turned off, or the battery disconnected."

I'm wondering what I should do since I have a 2001 Cup WITH an OBD port! Should I wire the external tach lead and power or not? Good grief!

Let the slugfest begin!

Toby

ProCoach

Retain the port. Done.

Der ABT

Umm......I'll probably blow my car up if I try this.....didn't they have a battery operated one....I had it in my car a several times but I don't remember it needing a power source or wire.

Jimbo951

A poorly executed rule...

I might accidentally wire the tach "signal" to a spark plug cable or the coil. Plug in... KERBLAMO.... sorry about that.

audipwr1

Also why that year? My 99 has obd2 port it has everything they need

Toby Pennycuff

^^ THIS! Actually both of these statements.

Toby Pennycuff

Peter, I agree with you. However, the rule clearly creates conflict. I'm sure it was well-intentioned, but perhaps poorly executed/worded. Point 1 states that the OBD port must be retained. CHECK. Point 2 states that 2001 and earlier cars "must must have a lead from the tachometer signal input terminal, terminated with a standard ~0.176" insulated female bullet connector, located in a conveniently accessible area below the dash on the passenger side. The connector must have enough slack to be conveniently used and to reach the right side roll cage front hoop upright, but may be lashed up out of the way with a Velcro or Gear Tie or some other easily fastened/unfastened tie (no zip ties, as they have to be cut)." Any car from 2001 and back that has a factory OBD port is mired in the conflict.

It would take a wording change to correct this, but until that clarification comes forth we all know some rules compliance objectionist will likely make a big deal out of the OBD-equipped car made from 2001 and before that has no tach lead.

Good intentions (catch the cheaters through data), less-than-stellar execution.

ProCoach

And if I were PCA Club Racing, I would send you a bill! 👿

Listen, why don't you talk to the Scruts and HELP them do their job instead of confirming your...?

I have no idea where this rule came from, and for sure it could be worded better, but I do know that this is a tested, proven way to establish class performance "outliers" that then get further scrutiny.

This hurts NO ONE. Sheesh.

Veloce Raptor

Didn't OBD2 start in 1996 model years?

This is weird.

ProCoach

It did, but it's not universal in what information is provided at that port. Also, everything before 2002 is REALLY slow.

It does appear that Porsche cars do offer a protocol AiM can understand for most cars through the OBD-II port:

Porsche Model -> OBD-II protocol - CAN (direct wire) protocol

911 (996 MK1) all models 1997 -> 2001 OBD_II - ISO9141/2 CANbus NOT available

911 (996 MK2) all models 2002 -> 2005 OBD_II - ISO9141/2 Bosch - Porsche_911(996)

911 (997 MK1) Carrera models 2004 -> 2008 OBD_II - ISO9141/2 Bosch - 997_GT3

911 (997 MK1) GT3 / GT3 RS 2006 -> 2009 OBD_II - ISO9141/2 Bosch - 997_GT3

911 (997 MK1) Turbo / GT2 / GT2 RS 2007 -> 2011 OBD_II - CANbus Bosch - 997_GT3

911 (997 MK2) Carrera models 2008 -> 2011 Porsche - 997_987_MK2_OBDII Porsche - EMS SDI 3.1 SIEMENS

911 (997 MK2) GT3 / GT3 RS3.8 - RS4.0 2010 -> 2011 OBD_II - CANbus Bosch - 997_GT3

911 (997 MK2) Turbo / GT2 / GT2 RS 2010 -> 2012 Porsche - 997_987_MK2_OBDII Porsche - EMS SDI 3.1 SIEMENS

911 (991 MK1) 2012 -> Porsche - 991_981_OBDII Porsche - 991_911

Boxster (986) 1996 -> 2004 OBD_II - ISO9141/2 CANbus NOT available

Boxster/Cayman (987 MK1) all models 2006 -> 2008 OBD_II - ISO9141/2 Bosch - 997_GT3

Boxster/Cayman (987 MK2) 2009 -> 2012 OBD_II - CANbus Bosch - 997_GT3

BoxsterS/CaymanS/CaymanR (987 MK2) 2009 -> 2012 Porsche - 997_987_MK2_OBDII Porsche - EMS SDI 3.1 SIEMENS

Boxster/Cayman (981 MK1) all models 2013 -> Porsche - 991_981_OBDII Porsche - 991_911

Jimbo951

Here's a question: Why can't this interim rule go through the normal rules process? PCA has a Rules Review Procedure in the rules book:

PCA Club Racing has established an annual process for considering changes to these rules. Changes in safety related rules, rules clarifications, changes necessitated by external forces (e.g., specific tire availability), and editorial improvements are at the discretion of the PCA Club Racing Committee (Rules Committee), and may or may not be part of this procedure. Additionally, such changes may be published at any time as the Rules Committee may see fit.

I don't see how this rule falls into any of the listed exceptions. I'm not against having a method to test for over-reving, but it should go through the normal process. My quick response would have been:

1) Clarify OBD vs Year
2) I like the trailer connector idea because it's a cheap, available connector, but use the 4 pin connector, and place the power, ground and tach signal on the same connector. And include a wiring diagram in the rules package.
3) Publish a year/class vs max rpm table. Otherwise someone is going to get screwed when the driver says max RPM is 7000 rpm and an unpublished, non-vetted specification says it's 6500.

bsztanko

SPB to allow re sleeved blocks with stock pistons......too bad you can't run stock piston in Nickasil liner..

f1rocks

OBDII signal on the early cars is not clean enough to get good data. In an effort to improve the data PCA is improve the signal so proper correlation can be done. It also helps reduce the number of protocols we have to vet through (never used that word much before the Syrian issue) It's difficult to switch from car to car currently and having a tach input helps us do a job better.

Walt needs the OBDII port for gear checking, I need the tach input signal for improved data. I suppose the two rules could have been separated as to not cause confusion but I think they are clear enough.

Yes, we would like to eliminate the battery. (Hey, I'm trying to save you some weight when we are checking you.)

As Procoach states, these are not terribly oppressive requirements. The plug is $4.18 on Amazon with free shipping. I have to add an $80 module on my car to get a tach signal as my wiring is totally gone from stock so I cost myself as well.

Any questions, give me a call 615-969-8212 or email me. brent.knoll@gmail dot com
Brent

944Cup

Well said.


Thanks for your efforts to make PCA a better place to race.

toddlamb

The rule isn't a conflict at all. You can have OBD and still have a separate tach lead (which is required for the 2001/older cars, as already stated, due to the poor OBD signal).

Simple addition to assist with tech.