road america race
09-09-2015, 02:35 AM
#106
Instructor
Phoopis, I am really glad you are safe and well bud. We saw your car go airborne after the hit and truly was speechless. Its a testament to the safety of these vehicles.
It really did look like two incidents, the first being the cups spinning further up after track out. Looked like a handful of cars collided, but a handful slowed down and made it through before the second large impact happened. I know from racing at RA for over a decade now that it is a little difficult to see the flag station before the kink. I know the 11B flag worker was waving his flag aggressively right as the impact happened (we were right behind him). He was too far for anyone down the track to see though.
The safety crews at RA were incredibly quick and professional though. We walked towards the scene of the accident and by the time we got there a lot of safety was already at the scene working on getting the drivers out of the vehicles and it took them less than a minute to cut the roof off of the car the moment they started down that route.
Best wishes to the driver that got air lifted. He is a long time racer and I wish him a speedy recovery. To the rest that were involved, I hope you guys are well too. Really a tough one to watch for all!
09-09-2015, 08:14 AM
#107
Rennlist Member
Time for a bit of controversy, is it time that PCA started a tiered Race License system, where you had to work your way up the power curve? The top tier cars that are available to run in PCA are raced in the professional series with few modifications. There are quite a few rooky drivers out there who are extremely capable drivers who are in these cars but can you have the situational awareness to stay on top of one of these machines with a limited racing history. The only reason I am bringing this up is that it seems that the occurrence significant incidences is increasing.
I think one of those new light flags needs to be on that corner worker stand at the kink. You can't really see the flag until you reach the left hand rumble strip at turn in. By then it's pretty late to shave any speed if the kink is jammed with an accident - especially without ABS. It doesn't help that the barrier just below the flag stand is yellow. It may make the barrier easier to see but - at a glance - a standing yellow flag blends in. A yellow light on that flag platform would be visible from the Continental bridge.
+2. RA workers are among the very best in the US.
09-09-2015, 09:30 AM
#108
Rennlist Member
I think one of those new light flags needs to be on that corner worker stand at the kink. You can't really see the flag until you reach the left hand rumble strip at turn in. By then it's pretty late to shave any speed if the kink is jammed with an accident - especially without ABS. It doesn't help that the barrier just below the flag stand is yellow. It may make the barrier easier to see but - at a glance - a standing yellow flag blends in. A yellow light on that flag platform would be visible from the Continental bridge.
09-09-2015, 11:25 AM
#109
Track Day
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I think one of those new light flags needs to be on that corner worker stand at the kink. You can't really see the flag until you reach the left hand rumble strip at turn in. By then it's pretty late to shave any speed if the kink is jammed with an accident - especially without ABS. It doesn't help that the barrier just below the flag stand is yellow. It may make the barrier easier to see but - at a glance - a standing yellow flag blends in. A yellow light on that flag platform would be visible from the Continental bridge.
09-09-2015, 02:57 PM
#110
Rennlist Member
I have been out on the track with these guys and it can get spooky with some of the stuff they try to pull off.
09-09-2015, 05:01 PM
#111
Rennlist Member
^ Personally I think the cup 'group' guys get a generally unfair rep. Yes when incidents happen, the expense is significant. Cost of doing business in those cars. If you're in 944 or Specbox or SM you can replace a radiator or control arm for a few hundred bucks and then use a hammer and speed tape on the rest.
Some of the people recurrently criticizing the cup group have a) never driven these cars and/or b) spent very little time on full slicks.
I have unfortunately witnessed the event and/or immediate aftermath of the more notable incidents at PCA races that resulted in significant damage (Mosport, Road Atlanta, and now Road America). A consistent theme is first lap, cold tires, and close packed fields re. impaired vision and situational awareness. A slick track at Road Atlanta compounded those other factors. Some of the risks are modifiable (2 pace laps at 60+ mph, driver decision making/risk taking) and some aren't. For the most part people are doing their best within the constraints of racing and sh*t happens.
It was interesting watching the cup guys from various places (5-9, kink, canada corner). You can clearly see who has spent time in a momentum car re. apex precision and using all the track to wring every ounce of speed out of the corner. There are always outliers but within a couple meters the line consistency was pretty damn good for club racing IMHO. And it was also clear (we were looking at braking points, time on brakes, and turn-in) that people are driving within their limits and self-preservation in mind at the kink. Only one cup car that we could identify was consistently risking at the kink.
Some of the people recurrently criticizing the cup group have a) never driven these cars and/or b) spent very little time on full slicks.
I have unfortunately witnessed the event and/or immediate aftermath of the more notable incidents at PCA races that resulted in significant damage (Mosport, Road Atlanta, and now Road America). A consistent theme is first lap, cold tires, and close packed fields re. impaired vision and situational awareness. A slick track at Road Atlanta compounded those other factors. Some of the risks are modifiable (2 pace laps at 60+ mph, driver decision making/risk taking) and some aren't. For the most part people are doing their best within the constraints of racing and sh*t happens.
It was interesting watching the cup guys from various places (5-9, kink, canada corner). You can clearly see who has spent time in a momentum car re. apex precision and using all the track to wring every ounce of speed out of the corner. There are always outliers but within a couple meters the line consistency was pretty damn good for club racing IMHO. And it was also clear (we were looking at braking points, time on brakes, and turn-in) that people are driving within their limits and self-preservation in mind at the kink. Only one cup car that we could identify was consistently risking at the kink.
Last edited by jdistefa; 09-09-2015 at 07:27 PM. Reason: grammar & clarity
09-09-2015, 05:27 PM
#112
Rennlist Member
09-09-2015, 06:41 PM
#113
Rennlist Member
09-09-2015, 07:48 PM
#114
Rennlist Member
road america race
Amen matt,
You have lot of race experience and everyone should listen to that.
Btw, i hope i didnt slow you down passing you on the right before the kink hehe
You have lot of race experience and everyone should listen to that.
Btw, i hope i didnt slow you down passing you on the right before the kink hehe
09-09-2015, 11:59 PM
#115
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
PM me your email and I'll send what we discussed...
Wonderful Jack!!!!!! Congrats
When every second counts, good to know you and the Road America Crew are there. Thank you for all the time you devote to it.
09-10-2015, 08:44 AM
#116
Rennlist Member
Except for the incident at the kink, it was a great weekend. Hopefully the driver that was hurt will recover soon. Thank you to all the PCA staff and volunteers that put on such a great event.
09-10-2015, 09:17 AM
#117
Nordschleife Master
Incredible weekend indeed. This is such a 'big boy' track.
Always impressed by the hot pulls.
09-10-2015, 10:41 AM
#119
Rennlist Member
