Watkins Glen Club Race
06-01-2014, 03:25 PM
#181
Rennlist Member
I am new to this whole racing thing in that WGI this year marked my first year in PCA racing. In that year, I raced WGIx2, VIR, Sebring, Road Atlanta and Lime Rock. So by now I have done over 10 races and multiple practice/qualify sessions. Those who know me, know in took a short route here(1.5 years of DE before my first race), am an A type person and could afford to be in the Red Group if that's what I wanted.
My DE car is a stripped GT3. Once I was able to get to the black run group, I assumed my next step was a Cup car. Why not right? I have a bunch of GT3's. I made an offer on a 2011 cup, but missed out. I was disappointed. I went and did the DE's at the Sebring, Road Atlanta, and Lime Rock club race's in 2013 and watched many expensive and pretty cars get destroyed. I also noticed the lower horsepower cars looked to be having a lot of fun, and mostly keeping it clean.
I bought a SPB that had already been built and have never thought about a Cup Car since. My motto is I prefer to DE a fast car and Race a Slow car because I realized tha stuff will happen on a fact racetrack in a race, sometimes because no one was at fault. In those cases, I want to be going slow, not fast.
My 3 observations in a year of racing are -
1) There is not enough focus on car control in the new racers. This was specifically why I ended up with the SPB. Rarely are you able to drive a perfect line in a race. I see to many racers spending time with coach's on the 'fast line' and not enough on how to get engaged with the car. If you can't put a car anywhere on the track that you didn't choose to, you need to stop and think about what your doing.
2) I was like Yonker. My first year of DE I did 25 days. My second 55. my third 62. This year I am shooting for 75 on track days. In my first year, I built a simulator and was in it 10-15 hours a week, and still get at least 5 on average. I speak to a lot of racers that drive 10-25 days a year max between racing and some DE. Car control is a muscle memory exercise. The more you do it, the better you are. I realize I am an exception and cost is not always easy to burden for people. But people need to be realistic with inputs and outputs. This should be something PCA tracks and correlates in order to focus on those that need the help to make it fun for us all.
3) Set realistic goals. People think I joke when I say this, but my aim Everytime I go out in a race or qualify, my personal aim is to finish 2nd last. I go and drive my race and my speed. Where I finish, isn't the aim. I do this on purpose for two reason's. It helps to keep my type A in check and everything above 2nd last will be a plus and satisfying to me. This to me is a fundamental way to approach how you race. It does not stop me from being competitive (I am type A after all), but it does help me make better decisions on a race track. I am not perfect and still make mistakes, but a find new racers should seek out the Daniel Yonkers to help get advice on council on racing and racecraft. This has been pivotal for me.
As a new racer, I would like to see these things change also. I personally see the run groups as graduations steps and think PCA should maybe find a way to enforce or encourage this in new racers. I will stick in SPB for a while as I am having a ton of fun and I like what I am learning.
I just hope it changes, before there are less of me who want to play.
My DE car is a stripped GT3. Once I was able to get to the black run group, I assumed my next step was a Cup car. Why not right? I have a bunch of GT3's. I made an offer on a 2011 cup, but missed out. I was disappointed. I went and did the DE's at the Sebring, Road Atlanta, and Lime Rock club race's in 2013 and watched many expensive and pretty cars get destroyed. I also noticed the lower horsepower cars looked to be having a lot of fun, and mostly keeping it clean.
I bought a SPB that had already been built and have never thought about a Cup Car since. My motto is I prefer to DE a fast car and Race a Slow car because I realized tha stuff will happen on a fact racetrack in a race, sometimes because no one was at fault. In those cases, I want to be going slow, not fast.
My 3 observations in a year of racing are -
1) There is not enough focus on car control in the new racers. This was specifically why I ended up with the SPB. Rarely are you able to drive a perfect line in a race. I see to many racers spending time with coach's on the 'fast line' and not enough on how to get engaged with the car. If you can't put a car anywhere on the track that you didn't choose to, you need to stop and think about what your doing.
2) I was like Yonker. My first year of DE I did 25 days. My second 55. my third 62. This year I am shooting for 75 on track days. In my first year, I built a simulator and was in it 10-15 hours a week, and still get at least 5 on average. I speak to a lot of racers that drive 10-25 days a year max between racing and some DE. Car control is a muscle memory exercise. The more you do it, the better you are. I realize I am an exception and cost is not always easy to burden for people. But people need to be realistic with inputs and outputs. This should be something PCA tracks and correlates in order to focus on those that need the help to make it fun for us all.
3) Set realistic goals. People think I joke when I say this, but my aim Everytime I go out in a race or qualify, my personal aim is to finish 2nd last. I go and drive my race and my speed. Where I finish, isn't the aim. I do this on purpose for two reason's. It helps to keep my type A in check and everything above 2nd last will be a plus and satisfying to me. This to me is a fundamental way to approach how you race. It does not stop me from being competitive (I am type A after all), but it does help me make better decisions on a race track. I am not perfect and still make mistakes, but a find new racers should seek out the Daniel Yonkers to help get advice on council on racing and racecraft. This has been pivotal for me.
As a new racer, I would like to see these things change also. I personally see the run groups as graduations steps and think PCA should maybe find a way to enforce or encourage this in new racers. I will stick in SPB for a while as I am having a ton of fun and I like what I am learning.
I just hope it changes, before there are less of me who want to play.
06-01-2014, 04:56 PM
#182
uninformed gas bag
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
I am new to this whole racing thing in that WGI this year marked my first year in PCA racing. In that year, I raced WGIx2, VIR, Sebring, Road Atlanta and Lime Rock. So by now I have done over 10 races and multiple practice/qualify sessions. Those who know me, know in took a short route here(1.5 years of DE before my first race), am an A type person and could afford to be in the Red Group if that's what I wanted.
My DE car is a stripped GT3. Once I was able to get to the black run group, I assumed my next step was a Cup car. Why not right? I have a bunch of GT3's. I made an offer on a 2011 cup, but missed out. I was disappointed. I went and did the DE's at the Sebring, Road Atlanta, and Lime Rock club race's in 2013 and watched many expensive and pretty cars get destroyed. I also noticed the lower horsepower cars looked to be having a lot of fun, and mostly keeping it clean.
I bought a SPB that had already been built and have never thought about a Cup Car since. My motto is I prefer to DE a fast car and Race a Slow car because I realized tha stuff will happen on a fact racetrack in a race, sometimes because no one was at fault. In those cases, I want to be going slow, not fast.
My 3 observations in a year of racing are -
1) There is not enough focus on car control in the new racers. This was specifically why I ended up with the SPB. Rarely are you able to drive a perfect line in a race. I see to many racers spending time with coach's on the 'fast line' and not enough on how to get engaged with the car. If you can't put a car anywhere on the track that you didn't choose to, you need to stop and think about what your doing.
2) I was like Yonker. My first year of DE I did 25 days. My second 55. my third 62. This year I am shooting for 75 on track days. In my first year, I built a simulator and was in it 10-15 hours a week, and still get at least 5 on average. I speak to a lot of racers that drive 10-25 days a year max between racing and some DE. Car control is a muscle memory exercise. The more you do it, the better you are. I realize I am an exception and cost is not always easy to burden for people. But people need to be realistic with inputs and outputs. This should be something PCA tracks and correlates in order to focus on those that need the help to make it fun for us all.
3) Set realistic goals. People think I joke when I say this, but my aim Everytime I go out in a race or qualify, my personal aim is to finish 2nd last. I go and drive my race and my speed. Where I finish, isn't the aim. I do this on purpose for two reason's. It helps to keep my type A in check and everything above 2nd last will be a plus and satisfying to me. This to me is a fundamental way to approach how you race. It does not stop me from being competitive (I am type A after all), but it does help me make better decisions on a race track. I am not perfect and still make mistakes, but a find new racers should seek out the Daniel Yonkers to help get advice on council on racing and racecraft. This has been pivotal for me.
As a new racer, I would like to see these things change also. I personally see the run groups as graduations steps and think PCA should maybe find a way to enforce or encourage this in new racers. I will stick in SPB for a while as I am having a ton of fun and I like what I am learning.
I just hope it changes, before there are less of me who want to play.
My DE car is a stripped GT3. Once I was able to get to the black run group, I assumed my next step was a Cup car. Why not right? I have a bunch of GT3's. I made an offer on a 2011 cup, but missed out. I was disappointed. I went and did the DE's at the Sebring, Road Atlanta, and Lime Rock club race's in 2013 and watched many expensive and pretty cars get destroyed. I also noticed the lower horsepower cars looked to be having a lot of fun, and mostly keeping it clean.
I bought a SPB that had already been built and have never thought about a Cup Car since. My motto is I prefer to DE a fast car and Race a Slow car because I realized tha stuff will happen on a fact racetrack in a race, sometimes because no one was at fault. In those cases, I want to be going slow, not fast.
My 3 observations in a year of racing are -
1) There is not enough focus on car control in the new racers. This was specifically why I ended up with the SPB. Rarely are you able to drive a perfect line in a race. I see to many racers spending time with coach's on the 'fast line' and not enough on how to get engaged with the car. If you can't put a car anywhere on the track that you didn't choose to, you need to stop and think about what your doing.
2) I was like Yonker. My first year of DE I did 25 days. My second 55. my third 62. This year I am shooting for 75 on track days. In my first year, I built a simulator and was in it 10-15 hours a week, and still get at least 5 on average. I speak to a lot of racers that drive 10-25 days a year max between racing and some DE. Car control is a muscle memory exercise. The more you do it, the better you are. I realize I am an exception and cost is not always easy to burden for people. But people need to be realistic with inputs and outputs. This should be something PCA tracks and correlates in order to focus on those that need the help to make it fun for us all.
3) Set realistic goals. People think I joke when I say this, but my aim Everytime I go out in a race or qualify, my personal aim is to finish 2nd last. I go and drive my race and my speed. Where I finish, isn't the aim. I do this on purpose for two reason's. It helps to keep my type A in check and everything above 2nd last will be a plus and satisfying to me. This to me is a fundamental way to approach how you race. It does not stop me from being competitive (I am type A after all), but it does help me make better decisions on a race track. I am not perfect and still make mistakes, but a find new racers should seek out the Daniel Yonkers to help get advice on council on racing and racecraft. This has been pivotal for me.
As a new racer, I would like to see these things change also. I personally see the run groups as graduations steps and think PCA should maybe find a way to enforce or encourage this in new racers. I will stick in SPB for a while as I am having a ton of fun and I like what I am learning.
I just hope it changes, before there are less of me who want to play.
06-01-2014, 06:03 PM
#183
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Marvelous post, Matt! Always enjoy watching you!
It was great fun listening to Ari Straus, an experienced Grand Am Conti series racer, express his joy, appreciation and respect towards the five or six cars he was having a great race with at the front of Blue in Sprint Race 2 yesterday.
Bela, Yonker, Matt, Bill and he went at it, but what Ari said was that each of the other drivers in that pack had terrific awareness, was giving and taking space without compromising themselves or others, and were ALL functioning at a very high, courteous and ethical level throughout the race. He called his own foul on a PUY (and I said "good on you!) but he was over the moon with his PCA experience.
He had nothing but the highest compliments for every one of the people in that leading edge...
Also, spoke with a few SP2 and SP3 drivers who got out of the car, ran to find another driver they had a great dice with and LOVED the close, but respectful and with a margin dice they had with each other.
OTOH, my driver got taken out by another driver who not only blew a debris AND Yellow at the entry of the bus stop, but had lost control before the contact, UNDER a yellow flag condition!?!?!?.
This was no rookie, at one point he was leading the race.
His "I'm sorry" rang hollow...
PCA CR needs more of the former, less of the latter, IMO.
It was great fun listening to Ari Straus, an experienced Grand Am Conti series racer, express his joy, appreciation and respect towards the five or six cars he was having a great race with at the front of Blue in Sprint Race 2 yesterday.
Bela, Yonker, Matt, Bill and he went at it, but what Ari said was that each of the other drivers in that pack had terrific awareness, was giving and taking space without compromising themselves or others, and were ALL functioning at a very high, courteous and ethical level throughout the race. He called his own foul on a PUY (and I said "good on you!) but he was over the moon with his PCA experience.
He had nothing but the highest compliments for every one of the people in that leading edge...
Also, spoke with a few SP2 and SP3 drivers who got out of the car, ran to find another driver they had a great dice with and LOVED the close, but respectful and with a margin dice they had with each other.
OTOH, my driver got taken out by another driver who not only blew a debris AND Yellow at the entry of the bus stop, but had lost control before the contact, UNDER a yellow flag condition!?!?!?.
This was no rookie, at one point he was leading the race.
His "I'm sorry" rang hollow...
PCA CR needs more of the former, less of the latter, IMO.
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
Last edited by ProCoach; 06-01-2014 at 07:51 PM.
06-01-2014, 07:40 PM
#184
Rennlist Member
06-01-2014, 07:52 PM
#185
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06-01-2014, 07:57 PM
#186
Rennlist Member
06-01-2014, 08:59 PM
#187
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06-01-2014, 09:05 PM
#188
I'm in....
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Marvelous post, Matt! Always enjoy watching you!
It was great fun listening to Ari Straus, an experienced Grand Am Conti series racer, express his joy, appreciation and respect towards the five or six cars he was having a great race with at the front of Blue in Sprint Race 2 yesterday.
It was great fun listening to Ari Straus, an experienced Grand Am Conti series racer, express his joy, appreciation and respect towards the five or six cars he was having a great race with at the front of Blue in Sprint Race 2 yesterday.
I do agree that PCA should have a more intensive 'racing' education program but the devil is in the details. A lot of people seem to already be over extended. Maybe Club Racing needs more budget to do some of these things.
06-01-2014, 09:15 PM
#189
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Scott, a pleasure to see you (and a TON of other RennListers) this weekend!
06-01-2014, 09:40 PM
#190
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i know the two guys who banged in the Red group qualifying. both good guys, both experienced, both respectful. one spun in the busstop a bit too heated, and the other had no where to go other than into him.
some of it is the yellow first lap. i think it was a 7 minute lap guys scrubbing tires, and getting heat into them. the sheer thought process that its going to be 70 cars on track , possibly an incident, leads you to overcook it lap 1 to get in a fast time so you're not at the back of the grid, etc. etc. chasing laptims, etc. etc.
personally, i think one solution is to have fewer drivers on track. there were too many in the red group at sebring and at watkins. i think everyone in red would pay another 200, 300 or more to have 1/3 fewer drivers, safer, more fun, less risky situations.
some of it is the yellow first lap. i think it was a 7 minute lap guys scrubbing tires, and getting heat into them. the sheer thought process that its going to be 70 cars on track , possibly an incident, leads you to overcook it lap 1 to get in a fast time so you're not at the back of the grid, etc. etc. chasing laptims, etc. etc.
personally, i think one solution is to have fewer drivers on track. there were too many in the red group at sebring and at watkins. i think everyone in red would pay another 200, 300 or more to have 1/3 fewer drivers, safer, more fun, less risky situations.
Put 70 cars together in one run group and send them into T1 with one slow lap to warm tires/brakes and you're bound to have issues.
06-01-2014, 10:56 PM
#191
I'm in....
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06-01-2014, 11:13 PM
#192
Rennlist Member
This last page or two is really great and informative ... from some of the most savvy and steady voices on this race forum. I really appreciate it. So I am mulling this over PCR CR thing over and want your opinion advice...So i give you a case scenario which is highly germaine to the comments above..and invite your comments...as i decide what to do. I put this up as an exercise not in asking for personal advice or evaluation, , but more just illustrating the dilemma which all of us starters must go thru….. and also , illustrative of the points made above about experience required for CRs
So, just as some background, I started DEs 2 years ago in an 88 C NA. ( i bought this car new in 88, and in last 2 years it has gone from garage queen to full out racer...Full cage, fire system, fuel cell, lightened, CF race buckets, full race suspension ..everything….with help of Dawe, Dougherty, etc but most work done by myself). handles extremely well, no traction aids great learner car as all inputs you can feel.. i did this, what i think is the " correct " way tweaking, safety, suspension, brakes, tires, power in that order.. its now a twin plug, 3.4 ITB/EFI setup making 280 at wheels.. i do not know the weight... and hence i do not know what class it would fit in in PCA CR but that is my goal...unless directed elsewhere by you guys....so its not overpowered but i am learning it. ( BTW: I can afford a GT3 ..but I am not going that route….not at all..)
I have driven 22 days over the 2 years in green with RTR, CVR , Schat, NNJR at PC DE events at WGI, LRP, Pocono, NJMSP, Summit,: at last CVR event at LRP in the Fall I was checked out for their next level, blue i think, but its still not solo...all fine with me.
So i took car to Florida for the winter and did about 25 more track days in three months. ( car stored in the infield at Sebring and managed by Tom Fitzgerald et. al. at Destiny Racing). Sebring 4x, PBIR, Homestead , and Daytona ( full 24 hr course) and did the " Mitty" at Road America. In contrast to my PCA DE experience, the vast majority of this was solo driving or wtw racing ( see below). I did events with these organizations: PBOC, HSR, David Murry Track Days (run up to the PCA races at Sebring), Flatout Motorsports, and Chin. (BTW there was a WIDE variety of approaches to checking out skill level, car prep etc. amongst these organizations..) ....
So i did three race events with HSR, (now run by Dorsey Schroeder in his first year as track chief): PBIR, SEBRING and ROAD ATLANTA. ( btw this year HSR ran one of the warmup races for the 12hr... so this was in front of 40k people!! eye popping experience for me) Each was a three day race event including practice, qual. , sprints and 1 or 2 enduros. (BTW the Enduros were for all classes/all comers so 1960s MG 4 bangers were out there with twin turbo 935s…..so running these is a huge experience in track awareness and letting others by)
… I did these in a combination of my car, a 2002 vintage BMW and a 72 260Z. So this three event was a checkout by HSR /Dorsey for their Comp license. Except for a few DNF due to mechanicals, i started every race , stayed out of everyones way, got out of everyones way, made no mistakes, and finished respectively in bottom third of pack. BTW these vintage guys race hard but are very respectful: despite considerable the number of off track excursions i saw, and very close wtw racing, there were very few car-car incidents in any of the rungroups. And anyone with even just an off track excursions was personally "visited" by Dorsey in the pits or paddock for a chat.
So this was a huge eye opener to both solo DEs and wtw racing for me BTW; the DMTD is really hardcore you spend most of your time getting out of other peoples way..so it greatly increases your situational awareness. but nothing compraes to the real thing wtw starts. I do not think any type of DE prepares you for this.. its simply a whole new ball game. I found that the DE skills/mandates taught including track courtesy , point bys etc, are very hard to get over in the wtw venue. Its an instinct….even after only 22 days DEs …which is hard to leave behind.
So I qualified for an HSR Competition license, ( signed off by D Schroeder and James. Redman ) and also did most of these other events solo and thus feel rather confident on track and of course, have gotten much much faster as I have gained experience seat time and car feel. …even though, when I get to NJMSP next week, I will still be considered an instructed green. Likewise i am told by CVR that I will be required to do 5 days instructed white (or whatever ) before being allowed to qualify solo for them. So whatever my experience , it seems I will be working my way thru the class structures for PCA DEs for awhile yet. However, as I was told by a bunch of PCA club racers, this experinec to date pretty much qualifies me to..go to a PCA CR weekend and either do (or not) do the 2 day “Course” before the weekend as a rookie.
So what am I to do: 47 total track days, (about 1/3 of them solo), HSR Comp lic. Certified, 9 days wtw racing in Fla.,( documented on racemonitor.com etc). etc. But still theoretically green in DEs. Yet qualified to go to a PCA CR weekend… BTW I am not a Matt type A…If I went, my goal would be to place last, keep out of everyones way…but I am also concerned that I would be a “ moving chicane” for everyone else out there in a PCA CR even as a rookie.
Would you guys suggest NASA or something else first , rather than PCA CR?
Would be interested in opinions ..i cannot decide. but do not want to either stall steady growth as driver, but also do not want to get in over my head… what is the balance?
( BTW Yonker, I am the 911 with the front bodywork from your old/wrecked GTS car Dawe sold me..)
Thanks Frank
So, just as some background, I started DEs 2 years ago in an 88 C NA. ( i bought this car new in 88, and in last 2 years it has gone from garage queen to full out racer...Full cage, fire system, fuel cell, lightened, CF race buckets, full race suspension ..everything….with help of Dawe, Dougherty, etc but most work done by myself). handles extremely well, no traction aids great learner car as all inputs you can feel.. i did this, what i think is the " correct " way tweaking, safety, suspension, brakes, tires, power in that order.. its now a twin plug, 3.4 ITB/EFI setup making 280 at wheels.. i do not know the weight... and hence i do not know what class it would fit in in PCA CR but that is my goal...unless directed elsewhere by you guys....so its not overpowered but i am learning it. ( BTW: I can afford a GT3 ..but I am not going that route….not at all..)
I have driven 22 days over the 2 years in green with RTR, CVR , Schat, NNJR at PC DE events at WGI, LRP, Pocono, NJMSP, Summit,: at last CVR event at LRP in the Fall I was checked out for their next level, blue i think, but its still not solo...all fine with me.
So i took car to Florida for the winter and did about 25 more track days in three months. ( car stored in the infield at Sebring and managed by Tom Fitzgerald et. al. at Destiny Racing). Sebring 4x, PBIR, Homestead , and Daytona ( full 24 hr course) and did the " Mitty" at Road America. In contrast to my PCA DE experience, the vast majority of this was solo driving or wtw racing ( see below). I did events with these organizations: PBOC, HSR, David Murry Track Days (run up to the PCA races at Sebring), Flatout Motorsports, and Chin. (BTW there was a WIDE variety of approaches to checking out skill level, car prep etc. amongst these organizations..) ....
So i did three race events with HSR, (now run by Dorsey Schroeder in his first year as track chief): PBIR, SEBRING and ROAD ATLANTA. ( btw this year HSR ran one of the warmup races for the 12hr... so this was in front of 40k people!! eye popping experience for me) Each was a three day race event including practice, qual. , sprints and 1 or 2 enduros. (BTW the Enduros were for all classes/all comers so 1960s MG 4 bangers were out there with twin turbo 935s…..so running these is a huge experience in track awareness and letting others by)
… I did these in a combination of my car, a 2002 vintage BMW and a 72 260Z. So this three event was a checkout by HSR /Dorsey for their Comp license. Except for a few DNF due to mechanicals, i started every race , stayed out of everyones way, got out of everyones way, made no mistakes, and finished respectively in bottom third of pack. BTW these vintage guys race hard but are very respectful: despite considerable the number of off track excursions i saw, and very close wtw racing, there were very few car-car incidents in any of the rungroups. And anyone with even just an off track excursions was personally "visited" by Dorsey in the pits or paddock for a chat.
So this was a huge eye opener to both solo DEs and wtw racing for me BTW; the DMTD is really hardcore you spend most of your time getting out of other peoples way..so it greatly increases your situational awareness. but nothing compraes to the real thing wtw starts. I do not think any type of DE prepares you for this.. its simply a whole new ball game. I found that the DE skills/mandates taught including track courtesy , point bys etc, are very hard to get over in the wtw venue. Its an instinct….even after only 22 days DEs …which is hard to leave behind.
So I qualified for an HSR Competition license, ( signed off by D Schroeder and James. Redman ) and also did most of these other events solo and thus feel rather confident on track and of course, have gotten much much faster as I have gained experience seat time and car feel. …even though, when I get to NJMSP next week, I will still be considered an instructed green. Likewise i am told by CVR that I will be required to do 5 days instructed white (or whatever ) before being allowed to qualify solo for them. So whatever my experience , it seems I will be working my way thru the class structures for PCA DEs for awhile yet. However, as I was told by a bunch of PCA club racers, this experinec to date pretty much qualifies me to..go to a PCA CR weekend and either do (or not) do the 2 day “Course” before the weekend as a rookie.
So what am I to do: 47 total track days, (about 1/3 of them solo), HSR Comp lic. Certified, 9 days wtw racing in Fla.,( documented on racemonitor.com etc). etc. But still theoretically green in DEs. Yet qualified to go to a PCA CR weekend… BTW I am not a Matt type A…If I went, my goal would be to place last, keep out of everyones way…but I am also concerned that I would be a “ moving chicane” for everyone else out there in a PCA CR even as a rookie.
Would you guys suggest NASA or something else first , rather than PCA CR?
Would be interested in opinions ..i cannot decide. but do not want to either stall steady growth as driver, but also do not want to get in over my head… what is the balance?
( BTW Yonker, I am the 911 with the front bodywork from your old/wrecked GTS car Dawe sold me..)
Thanks Frank
06-02-2014, 12:06 AM
#193
To me this a manifestation of a very serious problem that is plaguing PCA club racing. The screening process for training rookie racers, and the standards of issuance for a competition license are simply to lenient, IMHO.
As with all sports, it takes time, practice and dedication to become proficient. Even those with inherent skills spend countless hours perfecting their "game". In club racing, especially PCA, this process often seems to get bypassed. Those who want to race can do a season of DEs, maybe two, get their rookie license, and voila, they are suddenly on the track in an environment that is unlike anything they have experienced before. It is unsafe, and as noted above, seems to result in many black/red flags and limited race time.
The only suggestion I have is to make the driver training for prospective racers more rigorous. I would like to see a program within the DE program that focuses on developing racing skills - race craft - which is NOT talked about at DE. Literally create a session at the DEs that focus on race craft, passing maneuvers, offline maneuvers, and many advanced driving techniques that most DE drivers only vaguely grasp. There would be a dedicated, seasoned racer who would instruct these sessions. Or they could have an entirely separate Racers DE program, maybe a 1 or 2 day program, that is held several times a year. Drivers would have to complete this program after completing the usual DE requirements, but before going through the rookie license process.
In conjunction with getting my PCA license, I obtained an SCAA and NASA license. The latter two each had a 3-day race school that you had to attend, where race craft was taught and you were gradually thrown to the wolfs. By the end of the weekend you had to compete in and complete several races to get your Rookie license. In addition to these schools, I committed myself to driving upwards of 30DE days for two summers in a row, and I sold my fast 997 for a not so fast 911 so I could learn car control.
I'm not suggesting that all drivers take the same path I took, but there is simply no substitute for track time, regardless of the car. I see no reason why PCA can't augment their program to cater to aspiring racers. Not all people who attend DEs are going to be racers, so to have one program that fits all does not work. This is not T-Ball: not everyone should be allowed on the track.
In short, our DE program is not developing race skills, and it does not require enough seat time of drivers to consistently make them competent racers. Beyond this, there is the issue of one being able to drive a car that is so fast and so far above their skill sets that it creates serious speed differentials and an unsafe and unenjoyable experience for other racers.
Safe racing, my friends. See you at the track
As with all sports, it takes time, practice and dedication to become proficient. Even those with inherent skills spend countless hours perfecting their "game". In club racing, especially PCA, this process often seems to get bypassed. Those who want to race can do a season of DEs, maybe two, get their rookie license, and voila, they are suddenly on the track in an environment that is unlike anything they have experienced before. It is unsafe, and as noted above, seems to result in many black/red flags and limited race time.
The only suggestion I have is to make the driver training for prospective racers more rigorous. I would like to see a program within the DE program that focuses on developing racing skills - race craft - which is NOT talked about at DE. Literally create a session at the DEs that focus on race craft, passing maneuvers, offline maneuvers, and many advanced driving techniques that most DE drivers only vaguely grasp. There would be a dedicated, seasoned racer who would instruct these sessions. Or they could have an entirely separate Racers DE program, maybe a 1 or 2 day program, that is held several times a year. Drivers would have to complete this program after completing the usual DE requirements, but before going through the rookie license process.
In conjunction with getting my PCA license, I obtained an SCAA and NASA license. The latter two each had a 3-day race school that you had to attend, where race craft was taught and you were gradually thrown to the wolfs. By the end of the weekend you had to compete in and complete several races to get your Rookie license. In addition to these schools, I committed myself to driving upwards of 30DE days for two summers in a row, and I sold my fast 997 for a not so fast 911 so I could learn car control.
I'm not suggesting that all drivers take the same path I took, but there is simply no substitute for track time, regardless of the car. I see no reason why PCA can't augment their program to cater to aspiring racers. Not all people who attend DEs are going to be racers, so to have one program that fits all does not work. This is not T-Ball: not everyone should be allowed on the track.
In short, our DE program is not developing race skills, and it does not require enough seat time of drivers to consistently make them competent racers. Beyond this, there is the issue of one being able to drive a car that is so fast and so far above their skill sets that it creates serious speed differentials and an unsafe and unenjoyable experience for other racers.
Safe racing, my friends. See you at the track
06-02-2014, 12:37 AM
#194
Rennlist Member
Amazing, considering I personally watched at least 10 cars do this right in front of me... 
LOL!
My one beef with PCA CR: pace car speeds are WAY too slow for GT cars on slicks...
LOL!
My one beef with PCA CR: pace car speeds are WAY too slow for GT cars on slicks...
06-02-2014, 12:48 AM
#195
Rennlist Member
A lot of the Rs guys went cayman, you should try it....
You know what they say, once you go cayman.....
I really liked PBOC at sebring, seemed like a good group
Looking forward to HSR this fall