TRT41

+1

Streak

If this were an employer/employee scenario I would agree but it's not. This is a membership driven club. Not only are we paying dues and entry fees we are also putting ourselves in harms way and we need to have confidence in the staff and the decisions they make. Keeping everything all top secret like PCA is the CIA only fuels all the conspiricy theories which have kept this and other threads alive not to mention paddock chatter.

While not everything should be public I do think that leaving the members wondering if the Cayman got a 13 serves no good purpose. Transparency is often the best policy and quells all the "PCA 13's are political" and "the rules are enforced inconsistently" discussions that everyone of us has had over the years.

I for one would feel much better if I knew that the Cayman got a 13. Knowing that would cause me to have confidence in the staff and the rules enforcement and that that guy isn't racing with me the rest of the weekend or longer.

Manny Alban

You're right. This is a membership club. However, that does not mean that we look to publicly embarrass our members. Now, some members may not think that getting a 13 is embarrassing. That's fine. However, some do. IF a member feels it's okay for the information to be public, they are more than welcome to announce it anyway they feel.

Honestly, it scares me how quickly some fellow racers come to judgement. It makes a third world kangaroo court seem legit. Why don't you volunteer to be a stewards assistant one race. You'd be surprised at how much information they gather before making a decision.

If politics were involved, a few club race chairmen would have never gotten 13's. However, they did. If you don't have confidence in the program or its staff, I would suggest you find another sanctioning body or club that you do. The other option is you have is to become involved in the program and facilitate changes that will improve the program. That's why drove me to volunteer. As they say, talk is cheap. Action take energy.

I have over 100 races under my belt. I've run with people who I felt had no place on the track. 13's waiting to happen. Some times I approached the drivers myself, other times I approached the national staff. Yes, I've been hit, a few times. So I know how frustrating that can be. However, public announcement of the incident and punishment never seemed to be of importance to me. I have never gotten a 13, but if I did, I'm betting it would be because of an momentary lapse of judgement or a simple mistake. Would I want to add insult to injury? No.

Streak

I'm proposing a new PCA policy. 10" tall red 13's on ths hoods of any racer currently under a 13 and a revolving red light in tbe rear window.

Well Manny, judgeandjury did make the incident public and presented a scenario whereby the 944 should have gotten the 13. While the responders saw the flaws in his/her logic pretty quickly it still left some questions. Valid questions. Particularly valid based on the different goings on that were made public here. Was he the 944 driver presenting his thoughts on a very bad call or what? No response just leaves people wondering.

I'm not suggesting personnel issues like whatever happened to the angry scrute but on track incidents, particularly if the call is a tough one, can be informational and a teaching tool. Obviously not every single incident can be put out for consumption due to time and resources. If a racer knew his/her incident would be made public maybe that would influence their on track behavior as well.

I'm 99% positive that PCA gave the cayman the 13 and that all is right in the PCA world and since he made it public it's fair game.

I have every intention of pursuing a volunteer position with PCA CR when work and time permits. Thats a few years away but I think it would be a fantastic way to stay involved year round. Is there a process in place to shadow a steward or a scrute for people who are interested?

Edit: flagging would be even more fun.

jrgordonsenior

13/13's perhaps, Manny makes a good argument above. My concerns are more focused on that head scrut who got physical with 2 racers at the track. For me, that is a public issue that needs to be addressed. Physical intimidation is completely unacceptable....

Veloce Raptor

I would bet real money that that particular issue has already been addressed.

winders

Transparency is only a problem if you have something to hide....

Veloce Raptor

What is to be gained by breaching peoples' privacy and revealing this information?

Go to any PCA club race and observe just how many people with 13's show up at the rookie orientation meeting. PCA is not parsimonious in handing out punishments.

Come on.

MUSSBERGER

If I was you I would consider renting

Streak

I'm not aware of any privacy policy regarding 13's. Beisdes these incidents happen out in the open in front of an audience with video cameras all over the place so it's not really all that private. PCA puts DQ and the reasons on the time sheets so what's the difference?

I'm not suggesting a page of shame in the newsletter but if a concerned racer asks about the outcome of a particular incident he/she should get an answer. A simple "car #611 was found at fault" would suffice. No details beyond that are neccesary. As you said they'll be at the next rookie meeting anyway so what is PCA protecting?

Being labeled a cheater is far more embarrasing but PCA doesn't hide that info.

I think that this would only come up for me if there was a particular guy I raced with often that drove like an ahole at every event. I speak from experience on this. Not at PCA but a different organization. We had one guy that bounced off a few cars every race of the weekend time and time again. We could never understand why be was allowed to keep racing. It got to the point the entire race group threatened to stop coming to the races. That woke some people up.

Sometimes maybe it just makes sense to answer the question.

Just my opinion

You aren't under a 13 are you

winders

Secrecy breeds distrust...secrecy breeds unilateralism...secrecy breeds corruption.

Carrera51

Watching the video involving the Cayman and the 944, I saw a driver make an over optimistic attempt at a pass and messed up. He was a long way back when he made his decision so the 944 driver probably didn't expect that move. My question would be "how did he handle it?" Did he apologize to the driver of the 944? Did he take his 13 like a man? If so, then good for him. Or did he refuse to admit his mistake and start blaming the other drivers or his car? We don't know. If the former, then I wouldn't be afraid to race with him. Sounds like it was his first race weekend and he just got a little excited.

mklaskin

I understand not wanting to disclose any information about the Cayman driver, but what about the scrutineer mentioned earlier? He should be made known. While 99.99% of the volunteers work hard to make it a great organization, but guys like this (if it's all true) should be removed.

Coochas

Was wondering that too. Is it possible the race was black flagged? At one point he yells "what are you doing?" as people were blowing by him near the esses. Hard to see the flaggers in the vid.

mglobe

If someone in your place of business screws up (and let's assume someone did, we only know what the interweb told us), do you admonish them in front of their coworkers and post their name and photograph on the internet? Or do you deal with the matter in private?