hinchcliffe

So what does your region do? Only check for SA/M 2005 & 2010 sticker? How do you determine if the helmet has been in a incident? What if the sticker was taken from another helmet and put on an old one?

Basically I want to cover our "asses" in every way I can. Currently we do not remove all of the liner and inspect the foam, nor do we closely inspect the shells beyond the quick run over to catch any cracks/dents.

What do you do? Has any region been sued for allowing a "old" helmet? What about the damaged ones? What if they take our inspection stick and through it on an old helmet? We try to make our stickers distinct, but how else can we insure liability?

Thoughts welcome, thanks.

hinchcliffe

Really no help from anyone? What does your region do?

LexVan

You don't need no stinking helmets:

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...the-track.html

Geoffrey

In our Region, we do not do anything other than verify that it meets the minimum PCA National DE standard. I believe this policy limits the liability of our Region. What training would you obtain to determine how to test for the quality of a helmet? Who would make the decisions at to which FIA or SFI certified helmet met "your" new standard?

Coochas

If drivers want to lie about whether or not the helmet has been in an incident or go so far as to put an 'up to date' sticker on their helmet, then it's apparent they don't have a very good brain to begin with so there's not much point in pursuing protection for them.

As far as I know, we do remove the helmet lining if the standard is not visible elsewhere. We then put a sticker on with our region and the year. It's then good for the season. I can't ever recall someone failing a helmet. I understand the CYA part of what you are asking. What a sad age we live in.

gbuff

I understand the litigation issue, but as I was told years ago when I was teching for an event in Canada, "it's your head".

Wouldn't this be covered by the waiver(s) we sign at every DE?

Gary

mglobe

Pretty much the way I see it too. When the 2000 helmets were retired, we checked everyone to make sure their helmets were up to date. And we work hard to educate folks on safety issues. But at some point, after you have done a reasonable amount of checking and educating, it becomes the driver's responsibility to do the right things wrt to safety equipment imho.

car_slave

I'm sure you'll get plenty of good advice here, however you should probably also seek legal council from PCA.

Rich Sandor

If you are teching for a pca de you need to ensure you run the events to the pca minimun standards. If you dont, you leave yourself open to liability claims, and our pca insurance may not cover you personally if you fail to adhere to it. One of the things we have done in our region is purchase, in bulk, a bunch of bell open faced sa 2010 helmets. This way, novices and those with expired helmets may still run with us. Personally, i check the helmets for the sa tag, and use my judgment on 2005 helmets that look beat up. As long as you are no negligent in your duty as tech, you will be ok. There is a fair amount of onus on the driver to ensure they meet the guidelines themselves, as our tech is extremely limited as far as the pca minimum standards go. Some regions require annual or semiannual techs, from a registered mechanic, but not all regions. It depends on the demographic of the region. You can always create a section on the event registration form where the driver proclaims that they will use an up to date sa helmet with no history of damage. That could limit your liability a bit.. But i am not a lawyer, and laws are different in many regions. Ive just been cochairing de in pcacwr for the last ten years.. And even we found out recently that we were doing some things not 100% by the book a few years ago. It can be a real challenge for regions with new guys stepping into the de chairs.

Rich Sandor

As mentioned above, the first guys you should ask are our national de chair pete t, or ken, the insurance chair. Look on the last page of you panorama magazine.

Rich Sandor

Fyi, despite it being plastered EVERYWHERE on registration, there is almost always some goomba that shows up with a 1986 motorcycle helmet or similar at least once a year. Or a car that is only 2-3 years old, but the battery is not bolted down. Or whatever. Not always novices either! Just be vigilant and do NOT feel guilty about telling someone they cannot run until the issue is fixed.

racing916

Curt,

If you race dirt tracks like a lot of racers in upstate NY your helmet is only good for 5 years from the date of manufactured. They look at sa2010 and then look at the date built. If it has been 5 years it is no longer valid because of the wear and tear of the foam and the outside structure wear. If someone has had a incident then the belts and helmet should be replaced without a question. If a helmet you are checking has chips I would question it. if it had a crack I would tell them to buy a new helmet before they do a DE. The helmet is the most important safety item you wear so there is no excuse.

Steve

djantlive

If a crash is severe enough where a helmet made a difference, the occupant is either dead or seriously hurt. In such cases, helmet is usually trashed or kept as evidence I would think.

The real issue is m rated or expired sa helmet. I still don't understand why helmet should expired after 8 years. Foam doesn't deteriorate in 8 year. Actual condition should be the measure on expiration rather than a date.

Rich Sandor

^ I used to agree, but unfortunately that would be a subjective measure, and it's not easy to argue with someone who just paid $300 and traveled 300miles for a track day because you THINK his helmet is a little too worn out.

I look for visible cracks in the shell, around the visor mounts, or around any structural part of the helmet. But I only do that if the helmet looks ratty to begin with. If someone buys a brand new sa2010 helmet, drops it and cracks it and puts a sticker over it.. there's not much I can do. We are not going to ban helmet stickers.

hinchcliffe

Thanks for your insight all. I've been the DE Registrar and in turn helmet checker at the events since 2005. The NRPCA was at the PCA minimum standards and we have gone above an beyond those since 2005. At a planning meeting my new tech chair brought up a point about the helmets.

Since we in the NRPCA are working our backsides off to be the leading edge of the DE's available I'm pushing for a higher standards starting at this point. I was hoping to garner a bit of info from other regions, I've been researching their safety rules also, from the collective here who are involved.

I believe it is a region in the midwest that may have been sued, or has had a good lawyer clean up their liabilities, that showed statements to cover themselves.

Man, turning away guys at the event is a pisser, but I've done it. I cannot buy helmets as lend them out because I can see that being a liability also, well you gave me the helmet its your fault I threw it at my instructor.......

I'll contact PCA national and see what they have to offer.