View Poll Results: Would you instruct in this car?
Yes
45
72.58%
No
14
22.58%
Maybe? (What would be other considerations?)
3
4.84%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll
Question for DE instructors
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 26
From: Menlo Park, CA
Question for DE instructors
Hypothetically, if you were an instructor at a DE event, what would you think of this scenario:
Student's car is mostly stock (street tires, street suspension, basically unmodified motor), but the student has added fixed back seats and 6-pt harnesses. Everything is properly mounted, but the student is using a Brey-Krause harness bar for the shoulder belts and the car does not have a roll bar or roll cage (it is a coupe, so it complies with the letter of the safety rules). Factory 3-pt belts are also available if you prefer those to harnesses.
Would you instruct in a car like that? I know the harness bar/roll bar discussion has been had here already a few times, but I couldn't find much on whether most instructors/tech inspectors would have a problem with this type of setup.
I am asking because I am looking at safety gear upgrades, and while a roll bar would no doubt be safer, it is also much more expensive and presents logistical hurdles. In most situations, I think most agree that properly installed 6-pt belts and a HANS are safer than 3-pt belts. There is some debate about whether they are safer in a rollover, but quite frankly, I wouldn't feel great about going into a rollover with the 3-pt belts either. For me, I would be OK with doing the safety upgrades in 2 steps (everything but roll bar now, then roll bar down the road), but I want to get a sense of how instructors feel because I still want to be able to get instruction at events.
Thanks!
Student's car is mostly stock (street tires, street suspension, basically unmodified motor), but the student has added fixed back seats and 6-pt harnesses. Everything is properly mounted, but the student is using a Brey-Krause harness bar for the shoulder belts and the car does not have a roll bar or roll cage (it is a coupe, so it complies with the letter of the safety rules). Factory 3-pt belts are also available if you prefer those to harnesses.
Would you instruct in a car like that? I know the harness bar/roll bar discussion has been had here already a few times, but I couldn't find much on whether most instructors/tech inspectors would have a problem with this type of setup.
I am asking because I am looking at safety gear upgrades, and while a roll bar would no doubt be safer, it is also much more expensive and presents logistical hurdles. In most situations, I think most agree that properly installed 6-pt belts and a HANS are safer than 3-pt belts. There is some debate about whether they are safer in a rollover, but quite frankly, I wouldn't feel great about going into a rollover with the 3-pt belts either. For me, I would be OK with doing the safety upgrades in 2 steps (everything but roll bar now, then roll bar down the road), but I want to get a sense of how instructors feel because I still want to be able to get instruction at events.
Thanks!
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,388
Likes: 5
From: Damascus, MD
I don't see a problem with the proposed setup. However, both driver and passenger should be using the same restraint system; both using 6-point or both using OEM 3-point. Also note that intructors come in all sizes, so some racing seats and/or 6-point belts might be problematic for larger folks.
The Penguin King
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Houston
Pro
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 651
Likes: 29
From: Seattle, WA
a harness is one of the best upgrades anyways.. its amazing how much energy you use holding yourself in the seat with OEM 3 point.. with a harness your hips are attached to the seat and you get much more feel for all the controls... will probably help keep you out of a wall, so there is a balance there!
phil.
phil.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Philly Burbs
Harness guide bar or strut harness brace? Big difference. If it is a guide bar and the harnesses are mounted to it rather than to anchor point then just use the factory belts. If Gary is there just swap students with him.
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Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 26
From: Menlo Park, CA
Thanks everyone, that's helpful feedback. I will probably get a large passenger seat to match the large driver one that I will need - hopefully that will accommodate most instructors, and I could ride in the car if an instructor wanted to show me the line at a new track. So far, I have managed to avoid scaring my instructors, and I'll try to keep doing so even with the improved safety gear.
I am looking at the Brey-Krause harness bar, which connects to the B-pillars but also has rods to bolt to the C-pillars to prevent flexing that many other harness bars suffer from.
A few pictures of the bar I am looking at:
I am looking at the Brey-Krause harness bar, which connects to the B-pillars but also has rods to bolt to the C-pillars to prevent flexing that many other harness bars suffer from.
A few pictures of the bar I am looking at:
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 26
From: Menlo Park, CA
If that wouldn't solve the problem, I'd be interested to learn more about why.
Thanks
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,395
Likes: 7
From: Ottawa, ON
I was just going to ask this, too. Easily and non-destructively installed, and I believe they're around $650 shipped by Greyhound to your nearest depot.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 43,032
Likes: 2,766
VR - if you don't mind me pushing you a bit on this, is your reluctance due to the possibility that adding harnesses without a rollbar could create a risk in a rollover situation? If so, would using the 3-pt belts instead of the harnesses be a reasonable way assuage your concerns?
If that wouldn't solve the problem, I'd be interested to learn more about why.
Thanks
If that wouldn't solve the problem, I'd be interested to learn more about why.
Thanks