Question for DE instructors
 

Hypothetically, if you were an instructor at a DE event, what would you think of this scenario:

Student's car is mostly stock (street tires, street suspension, basically unmodified motor), but the student has added fixed back seats and 6-pt harnesses. Everything is properly mounted, but the student is using a Brey-Krause harness bar for the shoulder belts and the car does not have a roll bar or roll cage (it is a coupe, so it complies with the letter of the safety rules). Factory 3-pt belts are also available if you prefer those to harnesses.

Would you instruct in a car like that? I know the harness bar/roll bar discussion has been had here already a few times, but I couldn't find much on whether most instructors/tech inspectors would have a problem with this type of setup.

I am asking because I am looking at safety gear upgrades, and while a roll bar would no doubt be safer, it is also much more expensive and presents logistical hurdles. In most situations, I think most agree that properly installed 6-pt belts and a HANS are safer than 3-pt belts. There is some debate about whether they are safer in a rollover, but quite frankly, I wouldn't feel great about going into a rollover with the 3-pt belts either. For me, I would be OK with doing the safety upgrades in 2 steps (everything but roll bar now, then roll bar down the road), but I want to get a sense of how instructors feel because I still want to be able to get instruction at events.

Thanks!

I don't see a problem with the proposed setup. However, both driver and passenger should be using the same restraint system; both using 6-point or both using OEM 3-point. Also note that intructors come in all sizes, so some racing seats and/or 6-point belts might be problematic for larger folks.

No problem with me Mike, as long as the region says it's ok.... but some people say I have a death wish (after they watch me drive).

I'm fine with the setup as long as Gary isn't driving. :evilgrin:

Most people feel that way Mike... and that covers ANY setup. :roflmao:

I would instruct from the right seat as long as it is not my wife in the drivers seat.:icon107:

a harness is one of the best upgrades anyways.. its amazing how much energy you use holding yourself in the seat with OEM 3 point.. with a harness your hips are attached to the seat and you get much more feel for all the controls... will probably help keep you out of a wall, so there is a balance there!

phil.

Harness guide bar or strut harness brace? Big difference. If it is a guide bar and the harnesses are mounted to it rather than to anchor point then just use the factory belts. If Gary is there just swap students with him.

I am reluctant to get into cars with seats & harnesses, but no rollover protection whatsoever.

Thanks everyone, that's helpful feedback. I will probably get a large passenger seat to match the large driver one that I will need - hopefully that will accommodate most instructors, and I could ride in the car if an instructor wanted to show me the line at a new track. So far, I have managed to avoid scaring my instructors, and I'll try to keep doing so even with the improved safety gear.

I am looking at the Brey-Krause harness bar, which connects to the B-pillars but also has rods to bolt to the C-pillars to prevent flexing that many other harness bars suffer from.

A few pictures of the bar I am looking at:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1146449790.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1146449922.jpg

Don't use a 5 point unless you have a roll bar. Especially in a 944. The roof buckles like a beer can.

Have you considered the Rennline bolt in roll bar? I don't think it's a very significant $$ increase over the harness bar.

VR - if you don't mind me pushing you a bit on this, is your reluctance due to the possibility that adding harnesses without a rollbar could create a risk in a rollover situation? If so, would using the 3-pt belts instead of the harnesses be a reasonable way assuage your concerns?

If that wouldn't solve the problem, I'd be interested to learn more about why.

Thanks

I was just going to ask this, too. Easily and non-destructively installed, and I believe they're around $650 shipped by Greyhound to your nearest depot.

Yes that is it in a nutshell. I'd ride (depending on the driver/track/speed of run group combination) in the car as is with OEM seats and 3 point belts w/o rollover protection.