Watkins Glen Cayman Interseries crash at Connecticut PCA DE
06-27-2011, 08:22 PM
#46
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I'm happy to hear that the driver is OK. I remember seeing this car at LRP at a CVR DE last month.
It is actually a PCA DE policy that photos and videos of wrecks are not for public posting. There was a letter from Pete Tremper which was pretty black and white discussing this recurring problem. It has been mentioned at every PCA DE event drivers meeting that I have attended this year.
It is actually a PCA DE policy that photos and videos of wrecks are not for public posting. There was a letter from Pete Tremper which was pretty black and white discussing this recurring problem. It has been mentioned at every PCA DE event drivers meeting that I have attended this year.
06-27-2011, 08:22 PM
#47
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The fact that you have a racing license doesn't tell the CDI that you have the mentality and civility to behave properly in a DE setting. Racing and DE's are not the same thing, and folks coming in from the racing world have to conform to the DE environment. As a CDI, I would not put someone I didn't know out in the top run group without first having an instructor in the car with him to observe his behavior, regardless of his racing credentials. I've seen examples of experienced racers totally disregarding DE rules when they were let out on the track sight unseen.
06-27-2011, 08:27 PM
#48
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PCA has issued a directive to the regions to discourage posting for the public photos or video of crashes. Regarding the right of taking and or posting photos in general, this is not a public event, this is a private event because you have to pay to attend and sign a waiver to enter the property. so its a private event on private property. The region hosting the event can impose any rule it would like relating to photos and posting. so if a club said you can't do it and you do, then they would be free to ban you from future events. If they posted a fine for the violation of a posting rule and you signed up for the event voluntarily agreeing to that condition "a contract" a fine would be upheld.
now besides the legal issue, I think its a matter of professional courtesy to withhold photos.Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
now besides the legal issue, I think its a matter of professional courtesy to withhold photos.Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
06-27-2011, 08:35 PM
#49
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Not really. If you can go in with nothing more than signing a waiver it's 'public' in regards to rights for photos the only ones that an organizing group 'might' have is commercial rights and even then outside of top organizations (NASCAR, GrandAm, etc.) it's a grey area.
06-27-2011, 08:42 PM
#50
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The fact that you have a racing license doesn't tell the CDI that you have the mentality and civility to behave properly in a DE setting. Racing and DE's are not the same thing, and folks coming in from the racing world have to conform to the DE environment. As a CDI, I would not put someone I didn't know out in the top run group without first having an instructor in the car with him to observe his behavior, regardless of his racing credentials. I've seen examples of experienced racers totally disregarding DE rules when they were let out on the track sight unseen.
Again, sorry for the OT, I just had to finally get it off my chest...
06-27-2011, 08:49 PM
#51
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I've never seen anything about it at all the PCA events I go to.
Just read all the waivers for PCA I can find on line. Nothing about photos.
If you can show me an official one from PCA that'd be great. Or even better from the event in question.
I've sepnt a lot of time on the photography side so I learned a lot of the rules that govern them. Commercial rights are easy to protect. Journalistic and personal is much more difficult nearly imposssible.
Just read all the waivers for PCA I can find on line. Nothing about photos.
If you can show me an official one from PCA that'd be great. Or even better from the event in question.
I've sepnt a lot of time on the photography side so I learned a lot of the rules that govern them. Commercial rights are easy to protect. Journalistic and personal is much more difficult nearly imposssible.
06-27-2011, 08:54 PM
#52
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I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. The waivers specifically state these events are not public, and the event organizer reserves the right to create rules as they see fit, and by signing you are consenting to be governed by ALL of these rules. Thus, if the event organizer says no pictures of wrecks, you are bound to adhere to that rule. So the claim that a DE is a "public event" is ludicrous.
06-27-2011, 08:58 PM
#53
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what a stupid f'ing thread. guy stuffs his car and some dope posts an implication that it was because of speed differentials or a lack of point by's and it was somehow the organizer's fault. and in a big dose of sour grapes complains because the poor baby OP didn't get to run in black even though he's really really fast. and on top of it posts a pic even though PCA has asked us all time and time again not to out of respect for our fellow members. someone please lock or delete this nonsense.
06-27-2011, 09:03 PM
#54
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PCA is a car club of Porsche enthusiasts. I would hope that we look out for each other at events, be it DE's, Club Races or simple social events. It's why our motto is "it's not about the cars-it's the people".
Unless the owner of the car gives permission to post the picture, I would suggest removing it. I'm not arguing legalities. I'm pointing out the golden rule. You know, the one about treating others like you want to be treated.
Unless the owner of the car gives permission to post the picture, I would suggest removing it. I'm not arguing legalities. I'm pointing out the golden rule. You know, the one about treating others like you want to be treated.
06-27-2011, 09:05 PM
#55
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^^ +1 ^^
06-27-2011, 09:07 PM
#56
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I've never seen anything about it at all the PCA events I go to.
Just read all the waivers for PCA I can find on line. Nothing about photos.
If you can show me an official one from PCA that'd be great. Or even better from the event in question.
I've sepnt a lot of time on the photography side so I learned a lot of the rules that govern them. Commercial rights are easy to protect. Journalistic and personal is much more difficult nearly imposssible.
Just read all the waivers for PCA I can find on line. Nothing about photos.
If you can show me an official one from PCA that'd be great. Or even better from the event in question.
I've sepnt a lot of time on the photography side so I learned a lot of the rules that govern them. Commercial rights are easy to protect. Journalistic and personal is much more difficult nearly imposssible.
In reviewing this letter, it seems that it is more of a strong suggestion in the spirit of good manners!
March 23, 2011
To: Region Presidents (also please share with your Chief Driving Instructors)
From: Pete Tremper, National DE Committee Chairman
Re: Filming of DE Incidents
These days it seems all the rage to post digital videos and photographs on the Internet for viewing. We have noted that there have been several occasions where such digital images recorded during PCA Driver Education Events have found their way to Internet sites for public consumption. However, we sometimes forget that these images can have far reaching and unintended consequences for the parties, especially when posted without that person’s written consent.
The purpose of this communication is to ask that you strongly discourage filming of any incident at a PCA Driver Education event; and, certainly request that any available film not be posted on the Internet. PCA is a club founded on fellowship and enjoyment of our cars. One’s misfortune on a bad day at the track should not go public. We ask that you remind your fellow participants to remember the “Golden Rule” when they might be considering how to handle the filming or posting of a driving incident.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
To: Region Presidents (also please share with your Chief Driving Instructors)
From: Pete Tremper, National DE Committee Chairman
Re: Filming of DE Incidents
These days it seems all the rage to post digital videos and photographs on the Internet for viewing. We have noted that there have been several occasions where such digital images recorded during PCA Driver Education Events have found their way to Internet sites for public consumption. However, we sometimes forget that these images can have far reaching and unintended consequences for the parties, especially when posted without that person’s written consent.
The purpose of this communication is to ask that you strongly discourage filming of any incident at a PCA Driver Education event; and, certainly request that any available film not be posted on the Internet. PCA is a club founded on fellowship and enjoyment of our cars. One’s misfortune on a bad day at the track should not go public. We ask that you remind your fellow participants to remember the “Golden Rule” when they might be considering how to handle the filming or posting of a driving incident.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
06-27-2011, 09:15 PM
#57
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Does anyone have any follow up information on --------, who went into the Armco hard at the bus stop last Tuesday during the Connecticut PCA event at Watkins Glen? Wayne was driving the #11 white & red 2011 Porsche Cayman Interseries car. He was taken by ambulance to the local hospital and the car appears to have been totaled. He got crossed up somehow and broad-sided the Armco on the driver's side at a pretty good clip. The track was closed for more than 90 minutes.
He and I had been running together for the better part of four days...first at the Zone 1 48 Hours, and then with the Connecticut boys on Monday-Tuesday. He was very quick, but we were really having problems with slow traffic and a shortage of point-bys, and I'm curious if his incident was related to traffic. Wayne had been getting through the bus stop very fast in 4th gear and was pounding the alligators.
Connecticut PCA threw all of the solo drivers, regardless of ability or car speed, into one big group yellow/white/orange and turned them loose. It was the worst example of speed-skill differential I have ever seen in a DE and created one frightening moment after another. Several of us from outside the Connecticut group asked for check rides into the black run group and were told that we would need SIX logged on-track sessions with instructors before we would be considered for advancement....despite the fact that most of us ran Black in our home clubs. I sure hope Wayne's car wasn't totaled because of slower traffic.
He and I had been running together for the better part of four days...first at the Zone 1 48 Hours, and then with the Connecticut boys on Monday-Tuesday. He was very quick, but we were really having problems with slow traffic and a shortage of point-bys, and I'm curious if his incident was related to traffic. Wayne had been getting through the bus stop very fast in 4th gear and was pounding the alligators.
Connecticut PCA threw all of the solo drivers, regardless of ability or car speed, into one big group yellow/white/orange and turned them loose. It was the worst example of speed-skill differential I have ever seen in a DE and created one frightening moment after another. Several of us from outside the Connecticut group asked for check rides into the black run group and were told that we would need SIX logged on-track sessions with instructors before we would be considered for advancement....despite the fact that most of us ran Black in our home clubs. I sure hope Wayne's car wasn't totaled because of slower traffic.
Jack - Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was all fired up by the stupidity of this thread... my apologies.
06-27-2011, 09:16 PM
#58
06-27-2011, 09:19 PM
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What Coochas said...I have heard this from Pete Tremper and it has become a point of discussion at my regions drivers meetings...beyond this posting the picture is rude and in bad taste.
06-27-2011, 09:21 PM
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As for posting pix of other's misfortunes, I would not do it because I don't think it is right for me. I don't decide the OP`s morality.
What really gets me going is blaming the crash on the slower drivers or slower cars. Were they behind the wheel of Cayman? Did one of the 'slower' cars run into him? Doesn't sound like it. Appears more likely that the driver made an error. Damn, imagine that. I have a wall of shame, most here do, all will.
I do not like DE because of things like Jack's experience and as Ken says,`"don't have open passing". I may not be the one doing the passing, but if someone is faster than me - just get the f/"% around and leave me alone.
What really gets me going is blaming the crash on the slower drivers or slower cars. Were they behind the wheel of Cayman? Did one of the 'slower' cars run into him? Doesn't sound like it. Appears more likely that the driver made an error. Damn, imagine that. I have a wall of shame, most here do, all will.
I do not like DE because of things like Jack's experience and as Ken says,`"don't have open passing". I may not be the one doing the passing, but if someone is faster than me - just get the f/"% around and leave me alone.