Vonschmidt

Thanks to both of you I guess I was heading the wrong direction in my approach. I am adding a data system in a month or so. Thanks. I just though real time feedback would be helpful.

ProCoach

Good advice, but some DAQ (data acquisition) systems incorporate into the display a vMin "hold" and vMax "hold." What this does is tell you what the most recent values were for both measures. I find that incredibly useful and it is real-time feedback.

The tach reading at track out was the old-school, on-board, real-time feedback we all learned (and taught) at Skippy for over three and a half decades. Good, easy and very accurate.

On the raising vMin exercise, my experience is that most drivers (and nearly ALL club-level and track day drivers) do not and, without significant practice on executing JUST that fundamental skill, CAN NOT "brake with identical pressure" throughout the entire braking zone, even though we all know that that is the ideal.

The few people I see and work with who brake properly, along with others that modulate the brakes to "make the slowing fit the distance they feel they need to slow" just reach the proper turn-in speed well before it's time to turn in...

You need data to figure this out. Once you do have it, it's not hard to look at one or two measures to identify what you are doing and take steps to fix it.

winders

I can't think of a corner I do not trail brake into so there is no way I could or would want to "brake with identical pressure" throughout the entire braking zone. Because of that, I can't see how that would be ideal.....

Scott

ProCoach

Adam was talking about the approach to the corner. So am I.

To reduce speed to the point where you can blend the end of braking into cornering, which is what you are doing when you trail brake (into every corner?), you need to brake in such a way to initially "front load" the deceleration measure, but then keep it up before turning the wheel. THEN, you can let off, as you do.

Most folks don't do that.

Matt Romanowski

I think you need to re-read Peter's comment. Doesn't matter if you trailbrake or not, you need to time your brake application right, with the right amount of pressure, in the right spot, at the right time, down to the correct speed (which won't change).

Adam@Autometrics

A driver who brakes as you describe has much bigger problems than a few mph of apex speed (vMin alone is a poor indication of overall performance.) That is looking for tenths when there are seconds on the table. Get the low-hanging fruit first. Brake later, and if you're still getting the same entry speed, then that is still an improvement in performance. Repeating the process will lead to improved braking initially, and it puts you in a position to optimize apex speed ultimately.

winders

Peter,

Oh, I get it. You mean braking with identical pressure each time in the same braking zone. Not identical pressure throughout the braking zone. That wasn't clear to me when I read your post.

Scott

ProCoach

Yes, Scott. Sorry.

rhargy

OK guys, I've looked through this post and couldn't find anything on it, so if this is a repeat question I apologize for repetition. But, here's one I could use some help on.

I chase very well and run my best overall laps while trying to reel somebody in. I'm not as comfortable leading and can be susceptible to pressure from behind. Any tips on how to change my mental framework?

bobt993

Is this a question for a DE format or actual wheel to wheel racing? There are different distractions in each situation that you may need to consider. Following is always easier unless your the middle car in a sprint race and all three of you are equal in pace. DE environment is giving you cues and forcing you look to forward and into the turns a bit more. Following also has you turning in a bit softer and earlier as you are able to observe the car in front of you. If your in a DE and traffic behind you has your concentration a bit off then more seat time is required. The subconscious skills of car balance need to be on autopilot in a race situation (and top level DE groups), but in a DE your in control of the car behind you until your hand giving a point by so use this rule to help gauge proximity of the traffic.

rhargy

Thanks Bob and really focused on wheel to wheel. The brain wants to focus on keeping the competition back there instead of getting the most out of my lap. I get the defensive line thing but really feel I've got a mental hurdle to conquer here. Seem to make more mistakes when out in front.
When chasing I feel very comfortable with driving my line and getting the most out of what my car can do.

bobt993

If your racing in PCA and your qualifying well in your class then your likely just dealing with the similar pace of close competition. If your a bit back and having lower class racers in your mirrors then the issue is getting the most out of corner entry so defending becomes less of an issue. There is a certain racing group that I have attended sprint races with and they don't run split starts within a large field. The grid is set by pace only which is a big mistake. You have 500whp cars running a similar time to say a 250whp Boxster. They are constantly tripping on each other when the higher hp car pulls on the straight only to slow on corner entry. The lower hp cars constantly attempts passes in low percentage areas. Both cars are impaired and frustrated. I cannot remember one clean race. All of them have had a double yellow from car contact. So managing traffic can be problematic. Following is always easier and sometimes a smart race tactic in wearing down a competitor. If you need to get more comfortable on what the mirrors are telling you then work with a racer in practice events and have them drive just inside your line for an entire session. Get some feedback on where you are weak and work those areas first.

rhargy

Thanks Bob and maybe that's the real answer "use makes master". I probably just need to experience it more to get the defensive line down into the subconsious area rather than having to think about it.

Gary R.

In PCA I very seldom if ever run a defensive line (not including using traffic to my advantage of course) unless I don't know/trust the person that is close to me and am afraid of a dive-bomb, and at this point I usually do. It just slows me down and makes matters worse. In other venues it most likely is a necessity..

ProCoach

Agree with Gary here.

Personally, I think the whole defensive line idea is bulls#!t. The data doesn't support it, good practice doesn't support it, and if you're quick enough, you don't need it. If you need it, you're not driving as well as you should, or you're not "taking your medicine" if you screw up the previous corner...