Gary R.

It comes down to whose race i'm running, mine or someone else's.. and when I run someone else's race I make mistakes (ask my friends Bela or Sean). I actually make enough mistakes on my own, don't need any input from my mirrors!

winders

Assume the context of this post is racing for position...

I've have been in and have seen plenty of races where the defensive line isn't "bulls#!t".

Racing is about winning. If you can't do that, it is about finishing as high up in the order as you can. If the guy behind you is only a little bit faster than you, a [legal] defensive line can keep him behind you. It doesn't matter if you are not driving as well as you should or if you screwed the up previous corner. You do the best you can and that means not giving the position away just because someone is a bit faster. Make them earn it. "Taking your medicine" is bulls#!t! Make someone force it down your throat....

Scott

Gary R.

I can't wait to root for you on TV, but for me and my friends that race together I won't block someone that is faster than me or that took advantage of a mistake I made because it's easier to block than to be faster. I have been on pole and could easily block the crap out of anyone, and if I win that way I (personally) would feel like an *******...

Just my opinion of course.

winders

I said "defensive line", not blocking. Make your competitor use some race craft to get by you. Don't just open up the inside so they can dive on the inside and take the line from you.

Obviously it's different if someone is many seconds a lap faster than you. Usually, that person will never be behind you anyway.

Feel free to drive around on the qualifying line if you want.....and why bother racing if you aren't going to race??

Scott

HiWind

I race with high DF Lola's and single seaters sometimes - if I take the fast line (for me) in a couple corners I leave the door open and often find out how much faster their corner speed is ....as they pass me....but if there's a long straight coming up I can sometimes re-take them. I used to face the same problem from the other side in my 6RS vs the 3.8 997s except I was the one with faster corner speed and they were the ones closing the door

But def something to be said for defensive line applied in a gentlemanly fashion!
KEY for me is to out quali them and there the fast (open) line is best IM rookie opinion.

Wouldn't you agree Pete?

jakermc

Disagree.

The point of a race is too finish in front, not run fast lap times. Who cares if it slows you down if it accomplishes the first goal? If you are in front, there is a reason for that. At some point in the race you were probably running the best lap times. But things change over the course of a race and lap times can change relative to the competition. While I would never run defense in the first 10 minutes of a race, I certainly would in the last 10 minutes.

Maybe I am not running my best and making mistakes. Ok, but I am not going to give up. Superior race craft can win a race just as easily as a quick lap time.

I am not saying block, but I would certainly make the following car earn the pass. Without this aspect of race craft, we might as well just do time trials.

bobt993

Peter,

If your calling BS on holding off a high hp car in a corner so you can get going and not get lock stepped with a slower driver in a faster car then I don't agree. This happens all the time in PCA mixed class racing. Gary is suggesting that this is about holding up a faster lapping car and I don't think a defensive line benefits anyone when you are holding up a car/driver who has more pace everywhere on the track even if it's less than a second.

Veloce Raptor

+1

ProCoach

To make someone "earn the pass" can be done in such a way that you don't screw each other and, most importantly, not screw yourself.

I have seen enough races one on superior performance and fewer mistakes that I believe that is the fundamental building block of racecraft.

Taking one's medicine means if you screw up the corner and run wide, and someone gets a run because of it, it doesn't mean chopping across the bow of that person because you messed up and didn't want to "give up."

I think this is a very interesting discussion, but I include a dose of ethics in my teaching and coaching, and so do respected colleagues. I race people the way I want to be raced.

Matt Romanowski

+1. I think Peter gets it and sees the way for the best racing. I'm guessing he's been a part of it a few times too.

winders

Matt, Peter, Gary:

Again, assume the context of this post is racing for position...

I don't know where you guys get the idea I was suggesting that you do something unethical or bad. All I am saying is that you should not just let people by like it is a DE event.

When I am racing, I don't expect people in front of me to just let me by. If they are on the qualifying line, that certainly makes it easy and I wonder what they were thinking. This makes it all too easy to come up the inside and steal the line to the apex.

All I am advocating is racing......not some glorified DE event where you let people by just because they happen to be a little bit faster than you. That's ridiculous!!

Scott

Gary R.

Trust me Scott, to get by me it has to be earned, I give nothing away....

winders

Gary,

If you have someone behind you that is slightly faster than you and you run the fast line, then they are getting by you fairly easily at some point if they know what they are doing.

The one only way you can make them earn it is to run some kind of defensive line.

So, which is it????????

Scott

Gary R.

No one is slightly faster than me.

J richard

Now that's some smack talk right there...

classic