View Poll Results: Is there cheating in PCA Racing
No, We are all gentlemen
30
14.29%
Yes, Other people but not me
144
68.57%
Yes, I have a few secrets of my own
36
17.14%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll
Do people cheat in PCA Club Racing?
01-21-2011, 03:38 PM
#16
Nordschleife Master
As a scrutineer, I can say that most of the consistently fast, winning guys have had legal cars when we check them. When we do find issues, it is most often the mid to back pack guys.
01-21-2011, 03:39 PM
#17
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You are completely under-estimating the desire to win and boost one's stature amongst his/her peers. The formula for winning is no different for a successful entrepreneur than for his/her interest in motor racing. You can take the long road or the short cut and still get to the top of the podium and it is possible that only you will know what road was taken. Like all things in life it is not always fair.
BTW winning tire or even cash never adds up to the amount you put into the car etc so winning is not financially beneficial to anyone but the race shops on an amateur level.
You are completely under-estimating the desire to win and boost one's stature amongst his/her peers. The formula for winning is no different for a successful entrepreneur than for his/her interest in motor racing. You can take the long road or the short cut and still get to the top of the podium and it is possible that only you will know what road was taken. Like all things in life it is not always fair.
BTW winning tire or even cash never adds up to the amount you put into the car etc so winning is not financially beneficial to anyone but the race shops on an amateur level.
Im aware there will always be cheaters, my bigger issue is being accused of cheating and there is no way to prove Im legal (like NASA GTS when there is no dyno present). For PCA/BMWCCA where the rules are stated, if you think someone is cheating, then effing protest and impound the car and be done with it.
I hate all this behind the scenes... "that guy MUST be cheating" caus he beat MY cheater (or legal) car by 2 secs! If you really think the person is cheating, protest. If youre so hell bent on classifying someone as a cheater, then you better back that up with an impound and be prepared to pay for the costs associated if he is found legal.
Id like to take that one step further even and force the person to publically apologize for incorrectly accusing someone of such.
Cue this thread at about post #381: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...hos-in-26.html
01-21-2011, 03:58 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Your numbers are too small.... cheater.
I hate all this behind the scenes... "that guy MUST be cheating" caus he beat MY cheater (or legal) car by 2 secs!
Cue this thread at about post #381: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...hos-in-26.html
I hate all this behind the scenes... "that guy MUST be cheating" caus he beat MY cheater (or legal) car by 2 secs!
Cue this thread at about post #381: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...hos-in-26.html
01-21-2011, 04:05 PM
#20
Racer
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It wasnt for the size of the #s, though I was warning you to make sure you had that correct too. Someone got DQd for not having front #s.
Watching as I'm joining the club racing this year. Figured there is a level of cheating but very disappointing in such a group as PCA.
01-21-2011, 04:36 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
01-21-2011, 04:44 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Cheating is one of the reasons I like NASA GTS so much. It's HP to weight, have scales and a dyno and it's pretty simple. Do anything you want to the car as long as you fall in the HP/wt ratio.
Oh, and most cheaters usually justify their own cheating by thinking that everyone is doing it so when they cheat all they are doing is leveling the playing field. Simply not true.
Oh, and most cheaters usually justify their own cheating by thinking that everyone is doing it so when they cheat all they are doing is leveling the playing field. Simply not true.
01-21-2011, 05:02 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
If you call cheating the intentional disregard of the rules (for whatever reason) then yes, there are a lot of people "cheating" out there.
If you break it down to a finer level, I think that the cars that are not 100% legal fall into 3 catagories:
1) There is an illegal modification with minimal performance impact that was previously done to the car that is too expensive for the current owner to correct.
2) The current owner made illegal modifications not for performance but to increase reliability. Running ARP rod bolts, dual race IMS bearings, billet cam chain tensioners and GT3 oil pumps are all technically illegal, but do not improve performance, only reliability.
3) The car has illegal performance enhancing improvements that the owner is fully aware of.
If you break it down to a finer level, I think that the cars that are not 100% legal fall into 3 catagories:
1) There is an illegal modification with minimal performance impact that was previously done to the car that is too expensive for the current owner to correct.
2) The current owner made illegal modifications not for performance but to increase reliability. Running ARP rod bolts, dual race IMS bearings, billet cam chain tensioners and GT3 oil pumps are all technically illegal, but do not improve performance, only reliability.
3) The car has illegal performance enhancing improvements that the owner is fully aware of.
2. yes
3. YES
01-21-2011, 05:33 PM
#26
Autocrossing
Motorcycle Road Racing
Skeet
Golf
The activity I saw the most cheating in was golf. I learn more about the integrity of people playing golf with them than any other way.
And cheat for what? There is no real money to be made. All that winning can do is gain you the respect of your peers. What is that worth if you lose your self respect? Then again, guys that cheat don't seem to have any qualms about it so they have no self respect or honor. They just other people to think they are cool, I guess.
I try to pick race classes that allow for a fun car and have so few rules that it is difficult to cheat.
Scott
01-21-2011, 05:33 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
In your opinion, do you think they just do a better job of hiding it? ie: how do you check the cams without tearing into the motor?
01-21-2011, 05:51 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
01-21-2011, 05:57 PM
#29
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I was accused of cheating once. I asked the accuser to take a lap on my car, his time did not improve over driving his own car. I took his car and broke my lap record. It was classic!
Why cheat, I want to know that if I beat someone it was because I drove better.
Why cheat, I want to know that if I beat someone it was because I drove better.
01-21-2011, 06:02 PM
#30
Instructor
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+Eleventy Billion I too just don't see why you would want to at this level. At the end of the day we all want to sit around and swap stories about how much fun we had, why bring any of that into doubt?