View Poll Results: Is there cheating in PCA Racing
No, We are all gentlemen
30
14.29%
Yes, Other people but not me
144
68.57%
Yes, I have a few secrets of my own
36
17.14%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll
Do people cheat in PCA Club Racing?
#32
Drifting
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Suburban DC
Posts: 2,641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Every amateur endeavor I have participated in has had participants that cheat.
Autocrossing
Motorcycle Road Racing
Skeet
Golf
The activity I saw the most cheating in was golf. I learn more about the integrity of people playing golf with them than any other way.
And cheat for what? There is no real money to be made. All that winning can do is gain you the respect of your peers. What is that worth if you lose your self respect? Then again, guys that cheat don't seem to have any qualms about it so they have no self respect or honor. They just other people to think they are cool, I guess.
I try to pick race classes that allow for a fun car and have so few rules that it is difficult to cheat.
Scott
Autocrossing
Motorcycle Road Racing
Skeet
Golf
The activity I saw the most cheating in was golf. I learn more about the integrity of people playing golf with them than any other way.
And cheat for what? There is no real money to be made. All that winning can do is gain you the respect of your peers. What is that worth if you lose your self respect? Then again, guys that cheat don't seem to have any qualms about it so they have no self respect or honor. They just other people to think they are cool, I guess.
I try to pick race classes that allow for a fun car and have so few rules that it is difficult to cheat.
Scott
#33
Rennlist Member
This is what I wrote in the 993 thread after my limited (1 race) experience:
I have only (finally!) done the Summit race after 6 years of DE but was interested if I could see any obvious differences in acceleration between cars (for obvious cheating) and I couldn't. For all of the talk of PCA cheating in the stock/prepared classes it wasn't obvious to me on the track... I know it is out there though. I have heard of a few cars w/ custom gearing and I saw a car or two with wheels that were wider than allowed, but on the track where it counts I didn't see any cars that were mechanically faster than my car in G or even H (most of the H cars were faster at the end of the straight at Summit which they should be). My opinion is you can be at the top of your class (consistent podium) with a 100% legal car.
I have only (finally!) done the Summit race after 6 years of DE but was interested if I could see any obvious differences in acceleration between cars (for obvious cheating) and I couldn't. For all of the talk of PCA cheating in the stock/prepared classes it wasn't obvious to me on the track... I know it is out there though. I have heard of a few cars w/ custom gearing and I saw a car or two with wheels that were wider than allowed, but on the track where it counts I didn't see any cars that were mechanically faster than my car in G or even H (most of the H cars were faster at the end of the straight at Summit which they should be). My opinion is you can be at the top of your class (consistent podium) with a 100% legal car.
#34
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
Basic Site Sponsor
The thing is, if you cheat and win it is a hollow victory. If you cheat and lose, you just suck.
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
#35
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
#36
Nordschleife Master
Next time make sure those folks know that PCA does have the tools to check for gears. It's pretty easy actually. We basically bolt an angle gauge to the hub, and then turn the engine over...check against the chart and voila, instant gear ratio. I've found a few ring & pinions with it.
Checking cams is dirt simple, only have to pull a valve cover. And it ain't hard to make sure the pulley hasn't been reindexed either.
#37
Oh I know, and I have seen some there already as well, but in a class where everything is open to play with it makes cheating happen a little less often.
Want a short ratio gearbox ? Ok, it's legal. Want to have a bigger engine ? Ok, it's legal too. Want to bolt on a turbo, supercharger, bigger brakes, active aero, etc etc ? Ok, all those are legal also !
Want a short ratio gearbox ? Ok, it's legal. Want to have a bigger engine ? Ok, it's legal too. Want to bolt on a turbo, supercharger, bigger brakes, active aero, etc etc ? Ok, all those are legal also !
#39
Agree with Viking....NASA GTS is the way to go. I originally built my first race car for USTCC and then ran it in NASA PT....talk about cheaters!!! That's why I switched to GTS, rules are simple, and I've never been to a race without a dyno and scales.
#40
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, CA.
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#43
When I first started racing, I took my DE car to my local track (Lime Rock) and got my *** handed to me. I think I came in second to last overall in my races. While I ran fast lap times for my DE events, it was pathetically slow for the racing environment. I thought that everybody must be cheating.
However, at that event, I started to notice a couple of things: my car was still a DE car in that it had a few mods, but nothing close to what was allowed by the rules. The car was about 200 pounds overweight, still had stock headers and muffler, and the suspension was better than stock, but not a full race suspension.
By the next race (Watkins Glen), I fixed all of that, and I improved to about mid-pack. I was still convinced that some people were cheating (the people in front of me). What made me think this was that I was positive that another racer and I would leave a corner at the same time, and then he'd blow my doors off on the next straight.
Fast forward a couple of years, and I got better and suddenly I was winning some races and being on the podium on many others. The racers who were blowing my doors off were suddenly only even with me on the straights. What I found out was that I was leaving lots of time on the table, and these racers figured out how to get a good run on me. Now, I'm not leaving that time on the table, and it seems that among the front runners, there is no clear HP advantage between competitors. In other words, the better driver wins.
I agree that some people may be cheating (and I've had people basically tell me that they are - usually backmarkers), but I figure if I'm beating them, what do I care?
However, at that event, I started to notice a couple of things: my car was still a DE car in that it had a few mods, but nothing close to what was allowed by the rules. The car was about 200 pounds overweight, still had stock headers and muffler, and the suspension was better than stock, but not a full race suspension.
By the next race (Watkins Glen), I fixed all of that, and I improved to about mid-pack. I was still convinced that some people were cheating (the people in front of me). What made me think this was that I was positive that another racer and I would leave a corner at the same time, and then he'd blow my doors off on the next straight.
Fast forward a couple of years, and I got better and suddenly I was winning some races and being on the podium on many others. The racers who were blowing my doors off were suddenly only even with me on the straights. What I found out was that I was leaving lots of time on the table, and these racers figured out how to get a good run on me. Now, I'm not leaving that time on the table, and it seems that among the front runners, there is no clear HP advantage between competitors. In other words, the better driver wins.
I agree that some people may be cheating (and I've had people basically tell me that they are - usually backmarkers), but I figure if I'm beating them, what do I care?
#44
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In the pasture.
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#45
Nordschleife Master
In your opinion, do you think they just do a better job of hiding it? ie: how do you check the cams without tearing into the motor?