greenhorn`s silly post-event questions :)
08-06-2010, 09:22 AM
#331
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The answer is above... Even more simply put, you did not have the necessary skills or the knowledge to handle your car once you started 'pushing' a little. Pretty normal to that point.....
To speak to your post above: Once that recognition is made, what you do from there is the tell.
One can be obtuse - blaming the car, the track, the instructor, the weather, flag station 9, your breakfast, etc etc etc. These people constantly chase their car - mod this, change that: must be the set up, the tires, the car, etc etc etc. These people get and remain frustrated, don't advance, and don't have fun. Or worse. Not to speak for all here, but most have seen this firsthand and know it results in failure of some sort or another. Hence, the warnings you are receiving.
Or one can be objective. Since there are others out there that can pedal the same car about quickly, precisely, and safely, and in stock or near stock form; these people begin to understand that driving (racing even more so) is in very large part a mental sport. These people start with the nut behind the wheel. They realize that even the coarsest of cars is more capable that they are; that their ride will respond in kind to their inputs; that driving requires a special balance of large muscle groups and fine motor skills; and that driving requires an unnatural (in the beginning) balance of focus, awareness, and relaxation such that ones attention is often static and fully saturated (when it needs to be fluid and divided).
The latter persons will slow down. They slow and smooth their inputs so that the ride's response does not saturate their attention. And so they can relax. Which permits them greater focus on the things around them - initially the line, then traffic, working ultimately up to the feel of the car, its balance, how it responds to inputs, etc. Speed will then follow naturally and, equally importantly, progressively.
When you read this thread thru again in the future, I think you will realize that the guys here are only telling you to slow down so you can take that first step. BTW, the next step is the humility to be taught and to learn. As mrbillfill points out we all start there.. GL.
To speak to your post above: Once that recognition is made, what you do from there is the tell.
One can be obtuse - blaming the car, the track, the instructor, the weather, flag station 9, your breakfast, etc etc etc. These people constantly chase their car - mod this, change that: must be the set up, the tires, the car, etc etc etc. These people get and remain frustrated, don't advance, and don't have fun. Or worse. Not to speak for all here, but most have seen this firsthand and know it results in failure of some sort or another. Hence, the warnings you are receiving.
Or one can be objective. Since there are others out there that can pedal the same car about quickly, precisely, and safely, and in stock or near stock form; these people begin to understand that driving (racing even more so) is in very large part a mental sport. These people start with the nut behind the wheel. They realize that even the coarsest of cars is more capable that they are; that their ride will respond in kind to their inputs; that driving requires a special balance of large muscle groups and fine motor skills; and that driving requires an unnatural (in the beginning) balance of focus, awareness, and relaxation such that ones attention is often static and fully saturated (when it needs to be fluid and divided).
The latter persons will slow down. They slow and smooth their inputs so that the ride's response does not saturate their attention. And so they can relax. Which permits them greater focus on the things around them - initially the line, then traffic, working ultimately up to the feel of the car, its balance, how it responds to inputs, etc. Speed will then follow naturally and, equally importantly, progressively.
When you read this thread thru again in the future, I think you will realize that the guys here are only telling you to slow down so you can take that first step. BTW, the next step is the humility to be taught and to learn. As mrbillfill points out we all start there.. GL.
That's fargin BRILLIANT.
08-06-2010, 09:26 AM
#332
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
i really do not care how exactly other reputable ******** here transform meaning of rest of my words as they simply do not give any sh#t, but for this aspect naturally it is not what was going on as to claim such a thing would be a plain stupidity.
i did not intent to pass anybody at all, plain and simple. it was not a goal in a session. what i was trying to say was a simple natural thing - when instructor finally got me driving my line consistently in midday second day, nice and slow, with no shifts, no speed, nothing of all that crap that self-righteous people started preaching about on page 1 - midday Tuesday handling became more natural instead of a constant fighting with a car in every corner and as a result exit speed increased, smoothness of which they speak, increased and overall speed increased. then we tried to go faster and keep same line. have i passed your car or not - i honestly do not remember and would not be able to remember, it did not register anywhere at all. i remember i went around 4 or 5 cars on fastest lap which i started from 4th or 3rd position at staging. no idea how many passed me before.
then i started doing mistakes again and went all the way slower again and started repeating same exercise o same cars went around me.
passing was not what i was working on but i asked instructor if i should attempt passing people or not and she told me - keep the line an pass the traffic if you feel you should. so i tried. is it simple enough explained? no? sorry, cannot do it better as i ran out of words here.
Now as of you not passing me - same thing, it was not my priority to see you, however bad it sounds, especially on a first day and i simply did not physically see much of any traffic around me on Monday at all as all i was able to do was to see approaching corners and work on keeping the line. on second day i was able to see traffic much better and give signals in passing zones.
i was told to ignore my mirrors completely and instructor was in charge of telling me when to give a passing signal so if you had to sit behind me to almost 2 laps - that was most likely her decision and you had to sit there and not to try hit my rear bumper constantly taking away that little concentration that i did have.
but it`s your problem and i usually try to do my best never suggest what other people should or should not do. you have your own brain to decide on that.
so, it is all pretty much obvious common sense stuff.
i never pretend to be who i`m not despite quite stupid attempts from some ******** here to paint me the way they want to see me - well, too bad, reality is way more boring than that. it is rarely you get real anti-heroes in it. i do not care about that much.
probably not much point to write all that as vultures here do not give any sh#t anyway, but i felt that your ego was somehow affected here from something i said in the middle of trolling somewhere so i decided to put at least this little part straight, for my own clean conscience.
as of other questions i asked here - it was great fun and entertainment to see people`s reactions, it is always interesting to ask silly questions and see what comes back. that was my intent and it worked fine. as usual, some very interesting information was told by several people, and i think anybody who will go thought this thread later will find a lot of things that will help them in the future, myself included.
and as a message to most active preachers - that is what forums exist for, my friends. to ask stupid silly questions and get some resolution on things you do not attempt to do in real life. but, to each his own.
it also helps to learn hidden true personalities of people to as they open up in a fight and show what they really made from. worked nicely in this thread too. i did not know most of people here before, now i think i know most of them, exchanged tons of PMs, so, it was all fun.
Last edited by utkinpol; 08-06-2010 at 09:52 AM.
08-06-2010, 09:30 AM
#333
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That was the next line in the movie, oh culturally inept one.
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
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Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
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1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
08-06-2010, 09:37 AM
#334
Nordschleife Master
Uh, not really.
The full quote is:
The full quote is:
John Mason: Are you sure you're ready for this?
Stanley Goodspeed: I'll do my best.
John Mason: Your "best"! Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and strek the prom queen.
Stanley Goodspeed: Carla was the prom queen.
John Mason: Really?
Stanley Goodspeed: [***** his gun] Yeah.
Stanley Goodspeed: I'll do my best.
John Mason: Your "best"! Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and strek the prom queen.
Stanley Goodspeed: Carla was the prom queen.
John Mason: Really?
Stanley Goodspeed: [***** his gun] Yeah.
08-06-2010, 09:42 AM
#336
Nordschleife Master
08-06-2010, 09:57 AM
#339
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Rennlist Member
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ok, it probably requires a response as it goes too far...
i really do not care how exactly other reputable ******** here transform meaning of rest of my words as they simply do not give any sh#t, but for this aspect naturally it is not what was going on as to claim such a thing would be a plain stupidity.
i did not intent to pass anybody at all, plain and simple. it was not a goal in a session. what i was trying to say was a simple natural thing - when instructor finally got me driving my line consistently in midday second day, nice and slow, with no shifts, no speed, nothing of all that crap that self-righteous people started preaching about on page 1 - midday Tuesday handling became more natural instead of a constant fighting with a car in every corner and as a result exit speed increased, smoothness of which they speak, increased and overall speed increased. then we tried to go faster and keep same line. have i passed your car or not - i honestly do not remember and would not be able to remember, it did not register anywhere at all. i remember i went around 4 or 5 cars on fastest lap. then i started doing mistakes again and went all the way slower again and started repeating same exercise.
passing was not what i was working on but i asked instructor if i should attempt passing people or not and she told me - keep the line an pass the traffic if you feel you should. so i tried. is it simple enough explained? no? sorry, cannot do it better as i ran out of words here.
Now as of you not passing me - same thing, it was not my priority to see you, however bad it sounds, especially on a first day and i simply did not physically see much of any traffic around me on Monday at all as all i was able to do was to see approaching corners and work on keeping the line. on second day i was able to see traffic much better and give signals in passing zones.
i was told to ignore my mirrors completely and instructor was in charge of telling me when to give a passing signal so if you had to sit behind me to almost 2 laps - that was most likely her decision and you had to sit there and not to try hit my rear bumper constantly taking away that little concentration that i did have.
but it`s your problem and i usually try to do my best never suggest what other people should or should not do. you have your own brain to decide on that.
so, it is all pretty much obvious common sense stuff.
i never pretend to be who i`m not despite quite stupid attempts from some ******** here to paint me the way they want to see me - well, too bad, reality is way more boring than that. it is rarely you get real anti-heroes in it. i do not care about that much.
probably not much point to write all that as vultures here do not give any sh#t anyway, but i felt that your ego was somehow affected here from something i said in the middle of trolling somewhere so i decided to put at least this little part straight, for my own clean conscience.
as of other questions i asked here - it was great fun and entertainment to see people`s reactions, it is always interesting to ask silly questions and see what comes back. that was my intent and it worked fine. as usual, some very interesting information was told by several people, and i think anybody who will go thought this thread later will find a lot of things that will help them in the future, myself included.
and as a message to most active preachers - that is what forums exist for, my friends. to ask stupid silly questions and get some resolution on things you do not attempt to do in real life. but, to each his own.
it also helps to learn hidden true personalities of people to as they open up in a fight and show what they really made from. worked nicely in this thread too. i did not know most of people here before, now i think i know most of them, exchanged tons of PMs, so, it was all fun.
i really do not care how exactly other reputable ******** here transform meaning of rest of my words as they simply do not give any sh#t, but for this aspect naturally it is not what was going on as to claim such a thing would be a plain stupidity.
i did not intent to pass anybody at all, plain and simple. it was not a goal in a session. what i was trying to say was a simple natural thing - when instructor finally got me driving my line consistently in midday second day, nice and slow, with no shifts, no speed, nothing of all that crap that self-righteous people started preaching about on page 1 - midday Tuesday handling became more natural instead of a constant fighting with a car in every corner and as a result exit speed increased, smoothness of which they speak, increased and overall speed increased. then we tried to go faster and keep same line. have i passed your car or not - i honestly do not remember and would not be able to remember, it did not register anywhere at all. i remember i went around 4 or 5 cars on fastest lap. then i started doing mistakes again and went all the way slower again and started repeating same exercise.
passing was not what i was working on but i asked instructor if i should attempt passing people or not and she told me - keep the line an pass the traffic if you feel you should. so i tried. is it simple enough explained? no? sorry, cannot do it better as i ran out of words here.
Now as of you not passing me - same thing, it was not my priority to see you, however bad it sounds, especially on a first day and i simply did not physically see much of any traffic around me on Monday at all as all i was able to do was to see approaching corners and work on keeping the line. on second day i was able to see traffic much better and give signals in passing zones.
i was told to ignore my mirrors completely and instructor was in charge of telling me when to give a passing signal so if you had to sit behind me to almost 2 laps - that was most likely her decision and you had to sit there and not to try hit my rear bumper constantly taking away that little concentration that i did have.
but it`s your problem and i usually try to do my best never suggest what other people should or should not do. you have your own brain to decide on that.
so, it is all pretty much obvious common sense stuff.
i never pretend to be who i`m not despite quite stupid attempts from some ******** here to paint me the way they want to see me - well, too bad, reality is way more boring than that. it is rarely you get real anti-heroes in it. i do not care about that much.
probably not much point to write all that as vultures here do not give any sh#t anyway, but i felt that your ego was somehow affected here from something i said in the middle of trolling somewhere so i decided to put at least this little part straight, for my own clean conscience.
as of other questions i asked here - it was great fun and entertainment to see people`s reactions, it is always interesting to ask silly questions and see what comes back. that was my intent and it worked fine. as usual, some very interesting information was told by several people, and i think anybody who will go thought this thread later will find a lot of things that will help them in the future, myself included.
and as a message to most active preachers - that is what forums exist for, my friends. to ask stupid silly questions and get some resolution on things you do not attempt to do in real life. but, to each his own.
it also helps to learn hidden true personalities of people to as they open up in a fight and show what they really made from. worked nicely in this thread too. i did not know most of people here before, now i think i know most of them, exchanged tons of PMs, so, it was all fun.
It took 23 pages for you to put together an cogent description of what everyone you think is an ******* - myself included, no doubt - was telling you right from the start. Many of us here could have written this note for you, this synopsis of your first event, as we have experienced it over and over again with any number of students we have had, in my case, over the last 15 years. Whaddaya wanna bet that the people you think are the biggest ********, that have ridden you the hardest, could be your best track friends? Ask Boston. He's the only prototype that stuck it out around here. (Sorry Paolo, but you just fit, Bro.)
It is all new to you, Grasshopper, but you are nothing new to the Gods of Driving. Though we now don the Robes of Knowledge, we've all dwelt there in the past.
Zdravi !
08-06-2010, 09:59 AM
#340
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08-06-2010, 10:06 AM
#342
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'everyone you can think of' - gosh... yep. whole world around me consists of neverending chain of ********, think that of me if it makes your day brighter.
what can i do about it? it was not what was meant, what was meant missed your cognitive level completely, you see what you want to see and i am not in the position nor i have any desire to change that. water under the bridge...
08-06-2010, 10:26 AM
#343
if that is only thing you can see in my response - feel free to think so.
'everyone you can think of' - gosh... yep. whole world around me consists of neverending chain of ********, think that of me if it makes your day brighter.
what can i do about it? it was not what was meant, what was meant missed your cognitive level completely, you see what you want to see and i am not in the position nor i have any desire to change that. water under the bridge...
'everyone you can think of' - gosh... yep. whole world around me consists of neverending chain of ********, think that of me if it makes your day brighter.
what can i do about it? it was not what was meant, what was meant missed your cognitive level completely, you see what you want to see and i am not in the position nor i have any desire to change that. water under the bridge...
08-06-2010, 10:34 AM
#344
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
BTW i spoke to several folks i know from other forums and some i know privately about this thread and at least 4 people told me they never come to this particular forum and speak here of their problems or ask questions exactly because of what way such discussions here take turns. Some people stopped coming to RL altogether. So, for instructors here - you may want to think about that too, why people do not want to speak with you here about anything.
Not if that would matter to people who think they are in upper stratosphere already and if others do not pay their dues to them - it is their own loss, but, again, for what it`s worth - that`s what it is.
Just my 2c of stuff i did not want to speak about, but, from other point of view - why not, really.
Not if that would matter to people who think they are in upper stratosphere already and if others do not pay their dues to them - it is their own loss, but, again, for what it`s worth - that`s what it is.
Just my 2c of stuff i did not want to speak about, but, from other point of view - why not, really.