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greenhorn`s silly post-event questions :)

 
Old 08-04-2010, 11:18 AM
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utkinpol
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Default greenhorn`s silly post-event questions :)

hi,

have to say KUDOS to great people at this NHMS event, I had a lot of fun and hopefully will remember all what I was able to learn.

now, i am just curios about how fast are usually people on cars with gear ratios comparable to my 997 C2 at the entrance of turn 1? after i finaly was able to drive more or less consistant line at the end of day 2 i did this entrance repeatably hitting same line on gear 3 at 3K, 3.5K, 3.7K, 4K - so at 4K rpm i was able to make the entrance clean but had a feeling it goes at the edge where I can control the car and i could not maintain it until coming to 2a ad it dropped to 3.8-3.7 something.
as this turn one gave me most headache and my instructor did not drive 997 she could not give me definitive answers other than trying to increase my speed gradually .2K rpm at each lap and see when I will stop feeling if I can do it. so, may I ask you guys here - how do you do this section, starting from deceleration before turn 1 and until coming to lights - what are your rpms in each corner usually?

second question I have is - what to do with tires as they picked up so much marbles on them so it seems it got them completely off-balanced? driving home after day 2 was miserable - i have pictures here showing how tires look like. is it supposed to be cleaned off somehow? I tried to pick it with screwdriver - it does not come off.
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:30 AM
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Gary R.
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You drove on the road with those tires (lucky it didn't rain)? The klag should come off once they get hot but road driving may not heat them up enough to do it.

As for the other questions, never have driven NHMS so no idea about T1 but it seems to me you should have about 1000 more things to learn before worrying about what RPM you are at in ANY turn unless of course you were driving Flat Out and being held up a lot..

I think I would have duct taped over your tach if I was instructing you...
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:31 AM
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Flat out, that's how I drive. Flat out.
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:37 AM
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You could try removing some of that klag with a heat gun and a flat putty knife...you see Dads doing it for their young karters quite often.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR View Post
Flat out, that's how I drive. Flat out.
you see, i do not really care what people like you think about me so i do ask about any things I am curios about and I do not feel ashamed about it any single bit.

and it is quite typical that most smartass comments as usual do come from non-local people who really have nothing to say on the topic.
but who cares.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ltc View Post
You could try removing some of that klag with a heat gun and a flat putty knife...you see Dads doing it for their young karters quite often.
yep, i figured about the same, it is just quite a drag...
i picked all that up in last 2 sessions on last day. first day had some but not much. It was bombarding wheel wells very hard on long straight and in the bowl so i kinda hoped it should not be too much of it on tires but, well, as it seems it was a lot.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:09 PM
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The only time I look at my tach is coming out of turn 4 and going down the front straight. At turns 2a & 2b I'm too busy controlling the car to be looking at my gauges.

As for the tires, I would seriously consider buying another set of rims with street tires. Might also consider getting a tire trailer for hauling your track tires, tools and stuff to the track. As Gary said you dodged a bullet driving on the highway with those tires.

Another option would be to sell the 997, buy a diesel pickup, enclosed trailer and a dedicated track car. It will save you a lot of steps that most of us go through.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian A. View Post
The only time I look at my tach is coming out of turn 4 and going down the front straight. At turns 2a & 2b I'm too busy controlling the car to be looking at my gauges.

As for the tires, I would seriously consider buying another set of rims with street tires. Might also consider getting a tire trailer for hauling your track tires, tools and stuff to the track. As Gary said you dodged a bullet driving on the highway with those tires.

Another option would be to sell the 997, buy a diesel pickup, enclosed trailer and a dedicated track car. It will save you a lot of steps that most of us go through.
i have another set with street tires but there is no car trailer now nor in nearby future. as of driving home - it was not as bad as on a6 hoosiers in the pouring rain.
if i would have space to park car trailer and proper garage with a lift - i would already have separate track car but, well, it is not doable now.

tire trailer - yes, i think i will have to o something like that, similar to what some guys do on caymans - drill a hole behind rear bumper in that aluminum plate. some folks say it is dangerous and it is not designed to sustain any vertical stress so even light tire trailer may come off. not sure. it is a big liability question if this thing comes off and crashes somebody on the road.

as of turn one - what judy told me as i was able to maintain same line with no mistakes - just add up until you feel it`s right and her approach was that I should strictly maintain same level of throttle via whole zigzag without slowdown or acceleration. so on this concept as i can hold car on higher entrance speed into 1 it was really 2a what was limiting factor, so, that is what I am trying to understand - how you folks work this combination.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:20 PM
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Christ, Brian. Huh, What did you say, my eyes were stuffed....
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:24 PM
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I've never driven NHMS in a car but that seems like a lot of rubber to pick up in a DE.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:49 PM
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Default Flat out comments

Originally Posted by utkinpol View Post
you see, i do not really care what people like you think about me so i do ask about any things I am curios about and I do not feel ashamed about it any single bit.

and it is quite typical that most smartass comments as usual do come from non-local people who really have nothing to say on the topic.
but who cares.
This comment is actually from a now famous video about instructing. You can find it in several recent RL Racing and DE threads.
I doubt that it was meant as an insult.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:01 PM
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The point is Utkinpol, it sure appears you are focusing on speed. I find it hard to believe your lines are perfect and consistent in every corner/every lap. Your braking is perfect. Your transitions from brake to throttle perfect. Your steering inputs and transition are perfect. Any or all of these are MUCH more important than speed, but they all equate to more speed when mastered. Your new, your question wasn't silly nor was it out of line for someone new to track driving. Just get a bit thicker skin and listen to those with exponentially more experience than you and you will do well.

If you were a balloon think of this forum as the pin...
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by utkinpol View Post
ias of turn one - what judy told me as i was able to maintain same line with no mistakes - just add up until you feel it`s right and her approach was that I should strictly maintain same level of throttle via whole zigzag without slowdown or acceleration. so on this concept as i can hold car on higher entrance speed into 1 it was really 2a what was limiting factor, so, that is what I am trying to understand - how you folks work this combination.
If this was your first event, then that is correct. You need to be able to drive the 1-2a-2b portion of NHMS with a single throttle input before you try and do more. If you try and go faster than that allows right now, you are going to lose it somewhere in 2a or 2b and meet the outside wall on track out.

The real fast way through that complex is to trail brake into 1, carrying way to much speed and just catching it when you get near pit out on driver left. Then, yard the wheel right for 2a. When you get into 2a, you use the curb to throw the car left and set the suspension, then you can get it to turn right. After that, it's flatout through 2b and ride the slide.

If you choose to try the fast way, I have no responsibility for your car. I'm guessing you'll collect the fence on the left.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt Romanowski View Post
If this was your first event, then that is correct. You need to be able to drive the 1-2a-2b portion of NHMS with a single throttle input before you try and do more. If you try and go faster than that allows right now, you are going to lose it somewhere in 2a or 2b and meet the outside wall on track out.

The real fast way through that complex is to trail brake into 1, carrying way to much speed and just catching it when you get near pit out on driver left. Then, yard the wheel right for 2a. When you get into 2a, you use the curb to throw the car left and set the suspension, then you can get it to turn right. After that, it's flatout through 2b and ride the slide.

If you choose to try the fast way, I have no responsibility for your car. I'm guessing you'll collect the fence on the left.
thanks for the first informative answer about the topic here. i appreciate that.

what you say is actually matches 100% with what my instructor told me i should be able to do eventually. she did not want to do use brakes in tun 1 and i have no problems with that even if i felt that slight weight distrubution to front would allow me to get much better grip at 2a but I was actually loosing my rear end in 2a, not front, may be it is the way how car setup now, i did not have any understeer at all in this 1-2b section so that is why I even starting asking about speed as I need to figure out why the heck my *** was going loose where it was not supposed to and that is why i was looking at tachometer to make sure i do not lift car any single bit there. it is quite possible wiith all that crap on my rear tires that is why i started loosing them there. not sure. it just did not feel right at all.

as I also was quite decently tired at the end of day 2 perhaps it is possible i did misread my own sensations and reason may be different, so, who knows.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary R. View Post
The point is Utkinpol, it sure appears you are focusing on speed. I find it hard to believe your lines are perfect and consistent in every corner/every lap. Your braking is perfect. Your transitions from brake to throttle perfect. Your steering inputs and transition are perfect. Any or all of these are MUCH more important than speed, but they all equate to more speed when mastered. Your new, your question wasn't silly nor was it out of line for someone new to track driving. Just get a bit thicker skin and listen to those with exponentially more experience than you and you will do well.

If you were a balloon think of this forum as the pin...
you were not my instructor, you did not drive with me, you do not know my reasons, so keep you suggestions to yourself and do not respond to my posts, is it so difficult to do?
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