Weston

Pretty much. Dive-bombing is the same way. It's all a matter of perception. This reminds me of that George Carlin bit about how everyone who drives faster than you on the highway is a jackass, and everyone who drives slower is a moron.


Another thing I forgot to mention... "If he tries to stick his nose in, take it off!" is not only taught at our competition license school, it's required to pass it. As long as both drivers understand the rules and who has a right to be where they are, contact is rare. If you're going to just putz around and give up your position whenever someone sticks a nose in, you're not really racing.

M758

Weston,
I think we saying mostly the same thing. The difference is that to me a chop is a surprise move that make the other car got "oh **** time to save it a pray mode". Closing the door just means that the other guy may need to back out of it. There have been many times I have stuck a nose in knowing that I could get the door slammed hard or even chopped. However knowing that I leave a way out just in case. If the muscle works... great. If not back out and line up again. There have also been times where I have left only "just" enough space for another car. On one of those that driver made a very slight error and we tapped each other. Not hard, but it was one of those where we we both close and fighting hard. I felt I "had him" and he should have backed out because even if stayed without contact he had no place to go given where traffic was. Still he did not back down and could not hold tight and just tapped me.

No big deal as that happens in race. You race hard and close all it takes sometimes is small error. I have also been in spots where I got squeezed so tight that another driver and I tapped each other. We were 3 wide in spot that narrowed to 1 and 1/2 cars (on car on the track and the other 2 off). Well 3 cars can't fit so I got squeezed hard and made light contact. Again no harm done as that is just part of racing. We all 3 went at it hard and somebody had to give. I gave, but to late to avoid a tap. That is racing and why the door got shut hard it was not a chop since I could see it coming. The outside car had to turn in and the inside car had a wall so my middle lane evaporated. Oh well.

Now rude and dangerious chop would be to close in hard with a wall to the inside with the out side car clearly going off line and against inertia with a car next to him on the inside. If the lead car can close the wall before the passing car gets there fine.. Door Shut. If the inside car has established position you can close up and leave them "just enough" room, but to chop across is dangerous and inviting a wreck as if the inside car needs to get on he brakes hard in a turn a spin is very likely that will probalby take out both cars.



I think the clue is that if your "defensive" move or "offensive" move requires the other guy to some superhuman effort to prevent contact it is probably a bad idea. (ie if you make a move and close your eyes waiting for the crunch you are not doing it right) If the other mere "checks up"... game on!

Jimbo951

"This guys was trying to pass me and I shut the door on him. It was great.".

"I was trying to pass this guy and he chopped me at turn-in. What a jerk."

I hope that clears everything up.

Bryan Watts

Not sure I agree...to me it means that you never should have left the door open in the first place if the other driver had a shot at getting his nose in there. No one has said you just give up the position without a fight. Simply give the car room to exist in the corner beside you since you left the door open at turn entry and he/she pulled along side. THAT'S what racing really is. Chopping down on someone's nose after you left the door open is more akin to blocking than racing...anyone can do it. Cutting down on the apex to chop off another race takes no skill. The skill is negotiating the corner at speed "off line" while leaving room for your competitor to do the same thing.

I've seen all sorts of attempts to define who "owns" the corner. None of them work. If you let someone get their nose inside of you on the way into the corner, you've already screwed up, and I think you should have to deal with the consequences and give them room to race rather than claiming to "own" the corner because their front wheel was 6 inches behind your door at some imaginary point on the track or some such silliness.

Agree that perception weighs into things, but I think a dive bomb is easily defined. If I "dive bomb" and enter the corner so fast that I can't leave the other car room`to exist on the outside line from apex to track out (i.e. if I can't stay within the 1 car width lane on the inside that the other driver has left for me after he saw me making the late braking maneuver) than I have made the mistake. If I am able to get it slowed down and stay to the inside to contest the corner and try to make the pass while squeezing the other driver out to the track out curb just a bit, while still leaving him room to complete the corner, than it was never a "dive bomb" to begin with.

Obviously everything is situational. If it's a driver I know and I'm racing for a championship and we're on the last lap, I have a bit more of an "anything goes" attitude.

M758

Bryan is right that if you let a car put a nose in and gain any overlap you have given up the advantage. Now you MUST learn to drive a line that works for both of you. This does not mean you roll over, but you need be aware of what that guy is doing. Depend on how much the overlap, the relative speeds, grip levels, corner profiles and traffic you need to make a judgetment on how far/hard to push this. In some cases the smart move is to back way out and give the inside all the way and just try to get it back later. I got passed for the lead at least once being freight trained by faster traffic. I had to leave the door open for the faster car in the brakezone on a slow corner. So as I left room for the faster car my competition tucked in right on this guy and left me with no "safe" move. I could have chopped him really hard and forced him to stand on the brakes, but I knew I was beat. So instead I went deep and as he went wide on the exit of the hair pin I tucked back in and out ran him down the next straight. It became a simple pass repass that I saw coming a mile away. Easier and safer than chopping this guy.

So point is what you do is very situational. What works in one place on the track will not work someplace else. What works one lap may not work on the next.


A good racer works hard to defend position and never gives up, but at the same time never puts the other driver in a "avoid a wreck" situation. Only crappy racers who lact tatical racing skill (ir proper race craft) need to resort chops and blocking to hold position or dive bombs to try to mke a pass.

mater

Very well said Bryan

BostonDMD

Thank you all guys for all you prospectives........

I am aware of it all now...... so......

I will be ready for the different possibilities that might arise.......