What is the difference between shutting the door and a chop?........
.....Dan I have a black F 911.....
09-02-2009, 10:09 AM
#32
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I generally don't consider it "shutting the door" unless the driver then makes a 2nd move when they realize that the other driver is trying to take advantage of the line they left them after choosing their lane and making their "move". And then it becomes a chop if they make that blocking move too late to the point that the other driver has to be a hero to avoid hitting them.
here's another example of getting chopped...turn 2 at cmp after the start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1E9skQO2ak
09-02-2009, 10:18 AM
#33
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I have to disagree somewhat on this. Most of the Stewards constantly emphasize the 'co-exist' concept and police it accordingly. Besides, what's the sense in hiding behind a rule and being able to say "it was his fault as the rule states, not mine" but then having a wrecked car? Are principles worth that?
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09-02-2009, 10:27 AM
#35
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I agree that it is the intention of PCA to have you co-exist. Unfortunately that sometimes is not what happens out on the track, and it is well know that if you are the car behind you REALLY have to have a preponderance of evidence showing that you were chopped so as not to get a 13.
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
09-02-2009, 11:02 AM
#37
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You give them room, not anything else. The video posted earlier, 911 and white 914 isn't that bad. He gave you room, not a lot, but space.
09-02-2009, 11:21 AM
#39
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I'm more than willing to leave you as little room as possible (which may mean less than a car width of pavement if the inside curb is one that you can straddle), but I will always try to leave room for us to both navigate the turn if I've chosen the outside as my defensive move and the other car has come alongside under braking/turn entry. If I didn't want you to have the chance to get under me, I should have choosen the inside line on the way into the turn.
09-02-2009, 11:22 AM
#40
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No, but two free Hoosier R100 slicks is a pretty decent payoff for a race win. 
Besides, unless we're talking NASCAR or higher, the money you get for winning is way less important than the winning itself. I doubt the Koni Challenge or World Challenge guys really drive more aggressively because of the difference in payout between P1 and P2. They drive aggressively because they are competitive and they want to win.
Besides, unless we're talking NASCAR or higher, the money you get for winning is way less important than the winning itself. I doubt the Koni Challenge or World Challenge guys really drive more aggressively because of the difference in payout between P1 and P2. They drive aggressively because they are competitive and they want to win.
09-02-2009, 11:39 AM
#41
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You must be watching a different video than me. I see a 914 that choose the outside and then decided to chop down and take the inside away after the 911 got alongside during the turn entry. He most definitely didn't leave room for the 911 on the inside of the turn. Is that an "ok" move in 13/13 racing? No. Is that an "ok" move in non-13/13 racing? Depends on the driver who is being chopped and whether the battle is for a class position. If I'm the 911, that 914 is going to find itself spinning to the outside of the track because there's no way I'm backing off or going agro over that particular curb just so he can chop down to the apex and take up space that I'm already there occupying. The 914 had the chance to take the inside line into the turn and decided to move over just before the braking zone.
I'm more than willing to leave you as little room as possible (which may mean less than a car width of pavement if the inside curb is one that you can straddle), but I will always try to leave room for us to both navigate the turn if I've chosen the outside as my defensive move and the other car has come alongside under braking/turn entry. If I didn't want you to have the chance to get under me, I should have choosen the inside line on the way into the turn.
I'm more than willing to leave you as little room as possible (which may mean less than a car width of pavement if the inside curb is one that you can straddle), but I will always try to leave room for us to both navigate the turn if I've chosen the outside as my defensive move and the other car has come alongside under braking/turn entry. If I didn't want you to have the chance to get under me, I should have choosen the inside line on the way into the turn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OTG6j_t-gI
Thats a worse chop in T1 than the WGI video.
Agreed, just because you are a club racer doesn't mean you have to stop being competitive. I guess i'm in the minority here, but I spend way too much money and time to just go have fun. I want to win.......hear that Dave White!
09-02-2009, 12:02 PM
#44
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Agreed...though the inside was much kinder at Putnam than the curb at WGI would have been.
Everyone knows that if Ryan could just find a JP car to rent, he would wipe the track with all of y'all at O'fest.
09-02-2009, 12:41 PM
#45
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Just my observations, but the kind of moves shown in these videos (except for the cup car having to go agro to avoid) has happened to me (and I've watched happen to others) at every PCA or NASA race. I just considered it inexperience on my part to take that move away from the other driver by figuring out a way to force the car not to turn in when he wants. Most times I consider it as having slowed down too much and losing momentum which allows the other driver the opportunnity to get on the gas faster.