BostonDMD

Mamma mia.........

Did you stop by and say "HELLOOOOOO" to him/her afterwards?......

Sean F

I should have reached over and smacked him

gums

Paolo, mille grazie!

Alora, eco "Chop";

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_GsDHwT9MA

Larry Herman

If you have to back off to avoid punting him in the rear, it is shutting the door. If you have to back off to avoid taking out his quarter panel, it is a chop.

BostonDMD

Larry...... I got to say your explanation makes a lot of sense to me.....

How are they considered in PCA racing, hard racing or not gentlemanly?.......

Bryan Watts

Neither of the situations that Larry describes are "allowed" anywhere...they sometimes happen when money, ego, and a race win are on the line. I consider them to be crap whether racing 13/13 or Pro Racing...that said, if it's the last lap of a Pro race that means something, I may not be so stuck to my morals.

In 13/13 they certainly aren't allowed as contact isn't allowed. Most sets of racing rules allow 1 "defensive" move. Once the lead driver has chosen the outside line, he has to allow room for the other car on the inside if it comes alongside on the way into the corner, so shutting the door or chopping isn't allowed. Keep in mind, it's not "shutting the door" if the trailing car is in the process of making a dive bomb pass that he/she has no hope of completing without pushing the lead car off the track to the outside and not respecting the lead driver's right to the line they chose when they made their move.

Larry Herman

Shutting the door is on the verge of being overly aggressive in PCA (13/13) racing. Chopping is just plain BS. If there is contact, it is usually deemed the fault of the car trying to pass, and so the lead car unfortunately will use that rule to their advantage. If it were contact racing and I was faster, the first time you shut the door on me; ok. The second time you did it, I'd punt you off into the weeds.

Hard racing is when someone tries to come down the inside and you allow that 1 car-width at the apex but don't give up the corner, and make them beat you to the next corner.

BostonDMD

Great points Bryan......

are the flaggers supposed to monitor and report any of these "not allowed" actions?

Bryan Watts

Bingo.

Bryan Watts

Not that I'm aware of. Flaggers are there for your safety and not for enforcement of rules. If you relied on flaggers to report such violations, you'd get all sorts of opinions on what is allowed and what isn't...and the rules change from organization to organization.

If someone is driving in such a way, you need to have video and you need to take it to the stewards so that they can deal with it. Now that digital cameras are cheap and small, there's really no excuse for not running video if you are racing. It may be the difference between you getting the 13/13 for "running into" a car that turns into you at the apex or the driver who didn't leave room getting the 13/13 himself.

onefastviking

And an IOU punt in a corner to be named later.

Sean F

the pca 13/13 rule invites the chop since the overtaking car has responsibility for safely passing as Larry mentions. guys think this means they can chop and the guy passing has to back out. it's a clear problem of a rule in theory versus a rule in practice.

Bull

+1. Excellent point Sean.

bobt993

Paolo, they call race control and it is noted. I had this situation two weeks ago. I was left a gaping hole in T4 at Summit on the inside by P1-P2 cars and took it (last lap of the race). Three wide in the chute was crazy. Car in the middle moved over on me while we were side by side and I went farming having to brake in the grass at 100mph for T5. I survived and ended up in the lead. The paddock talk at first was a little heated, but then the middle car came over and conveyed he was told the corner workers called in his car# as hitting/ forcing me off the track. We were even closer than Sean's video so it looked like contact.

Sean brings up a extremely important point about the 13 rule. Lead car can use this as a weapon and block down aggressively with no repercussions.

DanR

poor Paulo