A.Wayne

From F1 , yes, same thing .........

A.Wayne

I guess it is OK when someone else copies my work



Now how is it possible that Shooomacher never knew the team was cheating or Brawn who was involved in the cheating ..

Ahhhh FA will do well at Ferrari , there is precedence Now will he take Briatore with him ?

multi21

Wayne,

How does this taste right about now???


Briatore and Symonds leave Renault F1
16 September 2009


The Renault F1 team announced on Wednesday that team boss Flavio Briatore and its executive director of engineering, Pat Symonds, have left the team. The team furthermore announced in a statement that it will not dispute the recent allegations made by the FIA concerning the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix.


The Renault F1 team will have to attend the FIA World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris on 21 September on the Singapore scandal and said in a statement that until then they will not make any further comment.

In last year's Singapore Grand Prix Nelson Piquet jr. deliberately crashed his Renault to help team-mate Fernando Alonso win the race.

Veloce Raptor

His silence is deafening...

50-50 that Ferrari ****can Fernanda Alonsettte's contract.






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

DAVISRILEY

I wold guess that Fernando to Ferrari has already been canned. Weren't they supposed to announce at Monza? I mean none of this had anything to do with Fernando, right? I'm sure he had no idea what was going on.

500

Spot-on 9.5 in regards to the Austria events. I don’t think anyone was happy with that, including most MS fans. There was some precedent for that I feel in that many times in the earlier history of F1 a teammate sacrificed in some way for the other driver to win. I think what rankled most was that is was so early in the season and MS’s lead was so large, that it really seemed unnecessary. If it were two races from the end of the season and MS’s points lead over another team’s driver was razor-thin, then I wonder if the reaction would have been different?

It does not really matter anyway, as the FIA has, in modern times, made these sorts of team orders expressly forbidden.

However, there are two aspects of the Renault incident (again, if it is shown to be true) that make it different:

1) Unlike Austria, which was an intra-team issue, the race fixing in Singapore denied another team’s driver a rightful victory. If RB had signed a contract stipulating that he had to move over for MS, in exchange for driving at Ferrari, well, those are the breaks I guess – he went in with his eyes open (this is assuming that there was such a contract). The Singapore event cheated another team/driver of victory – I see a big difference.

2) A driver crashing is always a risk. Thankfully F1 is incredibly safe in relation to the 1970s, but there is still risk. To contemplate asking a driver to PURPOSEFULLY take this chance is just unconscionable. That crash was a pretty hard hit (and the severity of it is what makes me still find it hard to believe). Of course PK was foolish and morally lacking to agree to such a plan, but the greatest burden must fall on the decision maker that hatched such a plot. Naturally many might suggest that it really was not much of risk given the safety of today’s cars, but I would counter that it is the classic “low risk, high cost” scenario… Low chance of bad outcome, but the severity of that rare outcome could be high.

It is always easy to simplify two separate incidents to a level where they can be construed to being equivalent (i.e. Austria and Singapore are both race fixing, right?) But isn’t that the same as saying that the person who killed a child “just for kicks” committed the same crime as the wife who shot her husband who had brutally abused her for years? OK, bad example, but the point is each situation must be evaluated in context. I am not defending Austria, that was a crappy day in F1, I’m just trying to explain why I feel Singapore is worse.

500

Oops, in the time I took to write the above, I did not see post #183 by Pete... Yikes!

Circuit Motorsports

It also could have affected the WDC as well. Massa was out of the points and Hamilton was 3rd. The two point difference from 3rd to 2nd thankfully meant nothing but man think of all the drama llamas if Massa had the 1 point WDC win taken away by this.

500

Yeah, the whole thing is now horribly screwed up… had PKs crash not happened the race would have gone a different route which we can never know for sure. Almost any other outcome would have been possible, although some would obviously have been more likely. As such, even if the FIA wanted to, there is no way to retroactively sort out what should have happened. Massa may have won, he may of crashed etc etc etc… Who can ever know?

Even if Nico is given the race win (and I’m not sure they will even do this given that it was last season), that is sort of weird as his race was unintentionally benefitted by the safety car.

What a mess!

A.Wayne

Ahhh, hmmmm , yes my life is now inexplicably changed , not sure how to move on ...

Snap !

I know i will take up Motorcycle racing ....................

multi21

Yup. Totally agree and as VR pointed out, I think Ferrari awaits to see what sanctions and evidence is presented at the hearing next Monday to determine what to do with Alonso.

Is this guy, Alonso really worth all the headaches?

I mean, I used to say Alonso was really good in the car, but a headcase out of it. Now I question how good really is in the car. Let me explain:

1. 2005 WDC: Alonso wins after rule makers find a way to stop the Schumacher Express and decree a stupid 1 tire for the entire race rule. Michelins are superior to Bridgestones for longevity and he wins easily.

2. 2006 WDC: Alonso builds a huge lead, but after discovering Renault had an illegal mass damper, all of a sudden he can't drive as well and chokes the lead ala Jensen Button in 2009. Schumacher eventually overtakes Alonso in the points lead, but tragedy strikes when Schumacher's engine blows up while leading the race with only 16 laps to go in Japan (2nd to last race of the year). Alonso flips off Schumacher in his car as MS pulls to the side and Alonso regains the point lead and the WDC.

3. 2007 McLaren: Everyone hails Alonso for "Finding 1.5 seconds in the development of the McLaren and is said to be a set up god only to find out that he was using Ferrari secrets including pit strategy, fuel loads, brake components, etc. The 1.5 seconds was actually found in the Ferrari dossier.

4. 2008 Renault: A particular person called the Renault a "Donkey Cart". But by the end of the season, Alonso was hailed as a great developer of the Donkey Cart as he had won 2 races toward the end of the season. A year later, it's discovered that at least 1 of those 2 wins came in a deliberate race staged by upper management of Renault F1 Team where Alonso's teammate was sacraficed and ordered to purposely crash into a wall risking his own life for a Fernando Alonso win. A win in a meaningless race where Renault was no where near the WDC or WCC.

5. 2009 Renault: Alonso ZERO WINS


Brilliant in the car, faux champion or con man? You decide.

Ferrari should quickly look at Kubica as their 3rd driver, especially given the fact that Massa might not fully come back. Kubica is a brilliant driver, moved to Italy at the age of 13 from his native Poland to continue his karting career and pursue his dream of driving in F1. He's knows the language, culture and would fit in well with Ferrari.

BlueRiver86

I really like Kubica and because I agree that he is skilled, I think he belongs in the car, not as a third driver. I say give Alonso the chance. He is one of the best current F1 drivers. Let Ferrari be the judge of his abilites.

MJSpeed

Though I find many faults with you statement I will point out that the mass damper was NOT illegal when the season started and was made illegal half way through the year.

I would point my finger at Briatore. Although I will miss his comments, F1 will be a better place without him.

Oh Flav at Ferrari, as the say in New Jersey, fogeaboudit! He is ego is too large to be Luca's number two.

A.Wayne

Nothing like a Petey analysis , There is no softer toilet paper in the west

Ritter v4.0

Well I said I liked it.
Unbelievable - even by F1 standards.