View Poll Results: Are racers more skilled drivers than DE guys?
Duh! Of course they are
91
81.98%
No! Just look at how many incidents occurred at this year's Crash at the Glen
7
6.31%
No - they have the same skills but racers have faster cars
13
11.71%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll
Are racers more skilled drivers than DE guys?
06-23-2009, 03:11 PM
#2
Shamwow!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Are racers more skilled than DE drivers?
In a word..............no.
If you have the time and the money, you can be a racer. That does not make you a skilled driver, or even a good one.
I know, there are LOTS of good, skilled racers out there, but there are also just as many good, skilled DE ers as well.
In a word..............no.
If you have the time and the money, you can be a racer. That does not make you a skilled driver, or even a good one.
I know, there are LOTS of good, skilled racers out there, but there are also just as many good, skilled DE ers as well.
06-23-2009, 03:20 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Yes, racers are more skilled than just DE folks...and I'm a DE guy.
They're more aware, quicker anticipation, ability to drive anywhere on track (even grass
) and are generally faster than DE guys!
When I seek advice on car control and going faster skills, I typically seek out my racer friends and not fellow DE buddies.
Any other questions???
They're more aware, quicker anticipation, ability to drive anywhere on track (even grass
) and are generally faster than DE guys!When I seek advice on car control and going faster skills, I typically seek out my racer friends and not fellow DE buddies.
Any other questions???
06-23-2009, 03:23 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
at least 10 pages 
06-23-2009, 03:26 PM
#7
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Deep Creek, Virginia
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trending Topics
06-23-2009, 03:34 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Posts: 972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In general racers are former DE guys. So just due to having more experience they should be more skilled.
My guess would be that racing encourages faster skill buildup. There is always someone else with a similar car and if they have more skill they will drive away from you. You learn very quickly from that.
You can spend years in DE without progressing much because you are not judged on your speed as much. You can find someone more skilled with a lesser car to play with and be happy with that. In racing that fact will be rubbed in your face by the time sheet indicating that you are in a faster class and should be doing better. Doesn't mean you can't learn to drive well in DE but you have to make a more conscious effort to improve yourself as a driver.
So racers should be more skilled in theory. In my experience that is often the case.
My guess would be that racing encourages faster skill buildup. There is always someone else with a similar car and if they have more skill they will drive away from you. You learn very quickly from that.
You can spend years in DE without progressing much because you are not judged on your speed as much. You can find someone more skilled with a lesser car to play with and be happy with that. In racing that fact will be rubbed in your face by the time sheet indicating that you are in a faster class and should be doing better. Doesn't mean you can't learn to drive well in DE but you have to make a more conscious effort to improve yourself as a driver.
So racers should be more skilled in theory. In my experience that is often the case.
06-23-2009, 03:38 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sorry, I forgot to mention the context behind the poll. It's a response to this post: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...ml#post6675675
06-23-2009, 03:45 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm going with #1. Certainly the DE'er and the racer generally have the same driving potential, but the racer has had FAR more opportunities to expand their skill set. For the DE person, these opportunities are very, very rare and as a result, it's much easier to become complacent in a DE setting.
For instance, let's examine what makes a good DE session. Most people would say that a great DE session (certainly one where you will learn quickly) is if you can pair up with someone that is about as fast as you are. This will allow you to go through the course and see where you are faster and where the other driver is faster. You can hopefully learn something from the other driver where you are slow (even just learning that you are slow through a section may be enough). How often do these sessions occur? If left to random chance, my guess is that it happens probably once per season, and maybe less.
By contrast, in a race setting, with the exception of the first practice session, you are gridded by fastest lap times. So, the person in front of you is slightly faster and the person behind you is slightly slower. In essence, almost every race session is the same as our "great DE session". This gives the racer two benefits that are not normally found in a DE setting:
1) The racer almost always has lots of "clean" laps. The person in front is slowly running away, and the person behind is slowly getting more behind. The racer generally does not have much traffic to deal with (this changes in an enduro and when coming up on lapped traffic).
2) By always have a "rabbit" ahead of you, it's very easy to see exactly where you are slow and it helps you start thinking about which turns you need to work on. For instance, at Watkins Glen, it was clear to me that I was giving up time entering the Bus Stop, the laces, and the toe of the boot. Even though I was running a very fast time by DE standards, it's obvious that I need to work on those sections.
As I said in the first paragraph, it's very easy for a DE driver to get complacent. If they are really good, they'll generally see that they are faster than most others in their run group, but they will usually not have an idea of how much faster they can really be. This is because they don't have anybody to compare themselves against. If the DE driver doesn't come up with a plan to combat this complacency, they will stagnate. By contrast, the racer always has immediate feedback on how well they are driving and if they have any ambition at getting better, they'll be able to quickly improve.
My WAG is that the bottom 5% of racers are better (faster?) than 95% of DE red/black run group drivers.
For instance, let's examine what makes a good DE session. Most people would say that a great DE session (certainly one where you will learn quickly) is if you can pair up with someone that is about as fast as you are. This will allow you to go through the course and see where you are faster and where the other driver is faster. You can hopefully learn something from the other driver where you are slow (even just learning that you are slow through a section may be enough). How often do these sessions occur? If left to random chance, my guess is that it happens probably once per season, and maybe less.
By contrast, in a race setting, with the exception of the first practice session, you are gridded by fastest lap times. So, the person in front of you is slightly faster and the person behind you is slightly slower. In essence, almost every race session is the same as our "great DE session". This gives the racer two benefits that are not normally found in a DE setting:
1) The racer almost always has lots of "clean" laps. The person in front is slowly running away, and the person behind is slowly getting more behind. The racer generally does not have much traffic to deal with (this changes in an enduro and when coming up on lapped traffic).
2) By always have a "rabbit" ahead of you, it's very easy to see exactly where you are slow and it helps you start thinking about which turns you need to work on. For instance, at Watkins Glen, it was clear to me that I was giving up time entering the Bus Stop, the laces, and the toe of the boot. Even though I was running a very fast time by DE standards, it's obvious that I need to work on those sections.
As I said in the first paragraph, it's very easy for a DE driver to get complacent. If they are really good, they'll generally see that they are faster than most others in their run group, but they will usually not have an idea of how much faster they can really be. This is because they don't have anybody to compare themselves against. If the DE driver doesn't come up with a plan to combat this complacency, they will stagnate. By contrast, the racer always has immediate feedback on how well they are driving and if they have any ambition at getting better, they'll be able to quickly improve.
My WAG is that the bottom 5% of racers are better (faster?) than 95% of DE red/black run group drivers.
06-23-2009, 03:52 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
I believe that people with both racing and DE experience usually have more situational awareness than people with just DE experience.
But, I'm going to reserve judgment about which are "better", "faster" or "safer".
But, I'm going to reserve judgment about which are "better", "faster" or "safer".
06-23-2009, 04:00 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
What you are basically asking is faster and more experience better than slower and less experience?
The answer is yes. Anyone with a good amount of racing experience will be safer than most DE folks. Sure, there are bad drivers and good drivers, just like in any sport, someguys never get it and some get it quickly.
The answer is yes. Anyone with a good amount of racing experience will be safer than most DE folks. Sure, there are bad drivers and good drivers, just like in any sport, someguys never get it and some get it quickly.
06-23-2009, 04:11 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
racers are faced with more varied unexpected situations that require faster reactions and more skill to respond to.
driving in a pack of cars door to door nose to bumper at speed through a corner off line is a skill set you could never develop in a DE setting.
starting midpack at the beginning of the race when the pace car pulls off and everyone heads into the first corner most of whom are off line is a situation you cant learn in DE
passing anyone in a corner on or off line is not a skill you can learn in our DE region.
I could go on but you get the point. DE's just dont present the situations and require the skills that races do period.
the answer is a no brainer and I have always thought that before I was an instructor or a racer. seems obvious.
does a jet fighter pilot have more skills than an uninstrument rated Piper pilot, you get the point.
driving in a pack of cars door to door nose to bumper at speed through a corner off line is a skill set you could never develop in a DE setting.
starting midpack at the beginning of the race when the pace car pulls off and everyone heads into the first corner most of whom are off line is a situation you cant learn in DE
passing anyone in a corner on or off line is not a skill you can learn in our DE region.
I could go on but you get the point. DE's just dont present the situations and require the skills that races do period.
the answer is a no brainer and I have always thought that before I was an instructor or a racer. seems obvious.
does a jet fighter pilot have more skills than an uninstrument rated Piper pilot, you get the point.
06-23-2009, 04:13 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
What you are basically asking is faster and more experience better than slower and less experience?
The answer is yes. Anyone with a good amount of racing experience will be safer than most DE folks. Sure, there are bad drivers and good drivers, just like in any sport, someguys never get it and some get it quickly.
The answer is yes. Anyone with a good amount of racing experience will be safer than most DE folks. Sure, there are bad drivers and good drivers, just like in any sport, someguys never get it and some get it quickly.