Phokaioglaukos

As Larry noted in another thread, there are some instructors who should not be instructing. What do you see that leads you to that conclusion? No names, please, and let's keep this on a high level intended to assist those who would like to instruct.

For example, must an instructor be able to heel and toe downshift effectively? Must he give pointbys quickly (good track awareness and ettiquette)? Must he be comfortable passing in turns?

How about ability as an instructor (and not just as a driver)? Can you see that on the track?

Veloce Raptor

Hell & toe is a basic skill that all instructors should be able to practice & instruct. Overall speed on track is not that important IMO, but awareness is.

Brian P

About H&T, I guess I agree in theory. I don't think the track is really the best place to be teaching someone that though. I can give them plenty of drills to practice so that the ride home from the track won't be boring and they'll likely have H&T mastered by the time they arrive home.

A good instructor is going to be able to communicate effectively with their students. Whether that means that they can explain things verbally well, use their hands and gesture well, or it means that the students are taken for rides (to demonstrate the line, for instance), a good instructor will find what teaching method is best for the student so that the student can quickly learn.

Also, some skills are easier to teach than others. So, many (if not all) instructors should be able to teach your basic green or yellow student. Instructing people in white, black, or fellow instructors may be extremely more difficult. If you are at the limit of your car and want to progress, you'll have to find someone who can drive similarly or better and can help you learn what techniques you need to use to get better. Finding someone like that is difficult indeed. That's why pro coaches can get paid.

Larry Herman

To answer your questions in paragraph 2, yes, yes and maybe.

If you are not keenly aware of what is around you at all times, if you cannot drive your car comfortably with-in 4-6 seconds of what a top driver can (not necessarily a pro driver), if you cannot accurately and consistantly hit all of your braking points, apexes and trackout points at 8/10s, and if close quarters makes you uncomfortable, then you do not have the driving skills to be an instructor.

If you cannot explain what you are doing in the car, why you are doing it and are not able to explain what the car is doing then you do not have the communication skills to be an instructor.

And if you cannot adapt to the student, understand their needs, and give them what they want in a manner that they can understand instead of just pushing them or bombarding them with "your expert drivel", then you do not have the temperment to be an instructor.

IMHO you have to have all 3 skill sets.

Geoffrey

I thought PCA did that with the Instructor Certification Program which combines interpersonal skill evaluation with driving skill evaluation with minimum standards.

Larry Herman

It is a step in the right direction, but it still lets people with marginal skills become instructors. I have seen it happen in my own club.

Geoffrey

As have I...

Bull

MANY of the Instructors in my local PCA Region have not been through the National Certification Program.

As I recall, the Program began in '05 in my area. Since then, all new Instructors have been through it, but it has been voluntary for those who were made Instructors prior to '05. Some have volunteered for the training, while many others seem to think they are above all that.

Bull

+1000!

DogInBlack

Larry, I completely agree. I've been fortunate to have good instructors for the most part in my DE experience. I've track buddies who have not.

I just completed my PCA instructor training. Some great instructors were approved, but not all candidates were approved. It is important to the safety of all on the track to have properly trained instructors with a good attitude and enthusiasm for the sport. I think high standards including advanced skillsets should be maintained for approving instructors.

Larry Herman

Interesting. All of our instructors were required to go through the program, regardless of how many years experience they had. I even took it.

DogInBlack

The PCA National Training Course I just completed did have driving skill evaluation, teaching evaluation, along with instruction for different types of student personalities.

Bull

Not so in all Regions apparently.

I'm sure they had you take the Program as a grand experiment...of what I'll let others suggest! (I took it also)

smlporsche

Well said Larry.
As a relatively recent instructor (2+ years) I have found that adapting my teaching style to the student to be one of the most challenging parts of instructing but once you discover the right method it is also one of the most rewarding aspects of instructing.

As an example, last weekend at RR I had a green student who only had 2 weekends prior experience and unfortunately both were bad. Her husband came up to me on the side before hand and explained what had happened. I went out of my way to avoid thie same experience and she was an excellent student and I think (hope) she got as much out of it as I did.

kurt M

Well said on a touchy subject. I would add that the very important factors of comunication and your ability to see, understand and ajust to your students best learning methods is right seat time and training based.

I to have seen some freshly minted instructors that might have used some more mentor time but overall none that were scary come out of our program. It is a good program but I think it can let someone that can check all the boxes but not be the sum of the parts in use get in the right seat. You stil need the mentors and their overall observations. Continued learning for instructors should not only be in the right seat. Use each other to advance you skills on and off track.

Edit. Thinking back I have seen an out of region instructor that was very heavy handed with low hour students to the point of yelling at them to get him to "understand". He did not get that you can't just describe something and the student will be able to do it right away.