How do you know an instructor should not be?
02-24-2009, 02:39 PM
#76
Three Wheelin'
I've been working with a pro coach for the past season and will continue doing it this season. Besides coaching me on how to improve my own driving skills, he has made me a better instructor as I share his driving tips with my students. He's also a motivational speaker, and definitely knows how to get inside my head to better understand what I do on and off the track.
We all have to work to improve our skills, whether driving or instructing. CVR is having a winter workshop on March 7th, which will have Ross Bentley of Speed Secrets do a workshop with instructors, and Scott Leder (my coach) work with our other members.
We all have to work to improve our skills, whether driving or instructing. CVR is having a winter workshop on March 7th, which will have Ross Bentley of Speed Secrets do a workshop with instructors, and Scott Leder (my coach) work with our other members.
02-24-2009, 02:58 PM
#77
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
A lot of good stuff!
- For me, the over-riding trait is that a person really WANTS to instruct. This person wants to help others, to share their knowledge, to give back, with enthusiasm and energy. This is the person I want.
- Hand in hand with the first point is that the prospect must understand that DE is a product, and the student is the customer in a business relationship. The instructor is there to take care of this customer's needs, and figure out how to maximize their experience. No customers, no business, particularly in this challenged economy.
- Obviously, communication is also paramount. You simply must know how to turn complex motorskill sets into words that people can understand. The experienced and gifted instructor will develope many different ways of saying the same thing or approaching the same problem, knowing full well that there are widely varying learning styles that have to be accomodated.
I think driving skill is almost secondary to these points. Yes, I do want my candidates to possess good skills as drivers (I would prefer that they are excellent, in fact), as that tends to have an effect on their understanding of what they need to be teaching, and how. However, great driving skills obviously does not guarantee great instructing potential. Setting an excellent example with the skills they do have is almost more important to me.
I've never been through the PCA National Program because I was drafted as a mentor at its outset (which is sort of the same thing... in reverse). In the time I have done it, I have failed perhaps half the candidates. I can honestly say it was always for a lack of communication skills. Some of these people were not all that good at walking the walk either, but it was mostly that they couldn't talk the talk. A fair number have struggled simply because they were not quite sure what to expect, and were a bit intimidated by the process, which can be a bit of a disqualifier in itself to my mind.
It is not a perfect program, and there are indeed people getting through that are substandard, in some regions. Yet, it is and continues to be a good baseline. The most effective way to screen from here is to put a serious push on student evaluation of their instructors, and the sharing of this feedback WITH the instructors so that steps can be taken to improve (or remove) any who are falling short.
If you do not continue to improve, you regress.
- For me, the over-riding trait is that a person really WANTS to instruct. This person wants to help others, to share their knowledge, to give back, with enthusiasm and energy. This is the person I want.
- Hand in hand with the first point is that the prospect must understand that DE is a product, and the student is the customer in a business relationship. The instructor is there to take care of this customer's needs, and figure out how to maximize their experience. No customers, no business, particularly in this challenged economy.
- Obviously, communication is also paramount. You simply must know how to turn complex motorskill sets into words that people can understand. The experienced and gifted instructor will develope many different ways of saying the same thing or approaching the same problem, knowing full well that there are widely varying learning styles that have to be accomodated.
I think driving skill is almost secondary to these points. Yes, I do want my candidates to possess good skills as drivers (I would prefer that they are excellent, in fact), as that tends to have an effect on their understanding of what they need to be teaching, and how. However, great driving skills obviously does not guarantee great instructing potential. Setting an excellent example with the skills they do have is almost more important to me.
I've never been through the PCA National Program because I was drafted as a mentor at its outset (which is sort of the same thing... in reverse). In the time I have done it, I have failed perhaps half the candidates. I can honestly say it was always for a lack of communication skills. Some of these people were not all that good at walking the walk either, but it was mostly that they couldn't talk the talk. A fair number have struggled simply because they were not quite sure what to expect, and were a bit intimidated by the process, which can be a bit of a disqualifier in itself to my mind.
It is not a perfect program, and there are indeed people getting through that are substandard, in some regions. Yet, it is and continues to be a good baseline. The most effective way to screen from here is to put a serious push on student evaluation of their instructors, and the sharing of this feedback WITH the instructors so that steps can be taken to improve (or remove) any who are falling short.
If you do not continue to improve, you regress.
02-24-2009, 03:43 PM
#78
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'd guess the lack of instructors is at least partially a reason why this happens?
The National Program is a good thing that helps but it doesn't mean the system is perfect.
02-24-2009, 06:13 PM
#79
A lot of good stuff!
- For me, the over-riding trait is that a person really WANTS to instruct. This person wants to help others, to share their knowledge, to give back, with enthusiasm and energy. This is the person I want.
- Hand in hand with the first point is that the prospect must understand that DE is a product, and the student is the customer in a business relationship. The instructor is there to take care of this customer's needs, and figure out how to maximize their experience. No customers, no business, particularly in this challenged economy.
- Obviously, communication is also paramount. You simply must know how to turn complex motorskill sets into words that people can understand. The experienced and gifted instructor will develope many different ways of saying the same thing or approaching the same problem, knowing full well that there are widely varying learning styles that have to be accomodated.
I think driving skill is almost secondary to these points. Yes, I do want my candidates to possess good skills as drivers (I would prefer that they are excellent, in fact), as that tends to have an effect on their understanding of what they need to be teaching, and how. However, great driving skills obviously does not guarantee great instructing potential. Setting an excellent example with the skills they do have is almost more important to me.
- For me, the over-riding trait is that a person really WANTS to instruct. This person wants to help others, to share their knowledge, to give back, with enthusiasm and energy. This is the person I want.
- Hand in hand with the first point is that the prospect must understand that DE is a product, and the student is the customer in a business relationship. The instructor is there to take care of this customer's needs, and figure out how to maximize their experience. No customers, no business, particularly in this challenged economy.
- Obviously, communication is also paramount. You simply must know how to turn complex motorskill sets into words that people can understand. The experienced and gifted instructor will develope many different ways of saying the same thing or approaching the same problem, knowing full well that there are widely varying learning styles that have to be accomodated.
I think driving skill is almost secondary to these points. Yes, I do want my candidates to possess good skills as drivers (I would prefer that they are excellent, in fact), as that tends to have an effect on their understanding of what they need to be teaching, and how. However, great driving skills obviously does not guarantee great instructing potential. Setting an excellent example with the skills they do have is almost more important to me.
02-24-2009, 07:18 PM
#80
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Tack! 
Here's an example of someone who should not be instructing. On the 2nd day of a 3-day event, I was asked by a CI to trade students with another instructor. I was told there was a "communication problem." My student was my girlfriend, but if it was only a basic communication problem between two people, I was not concerned about handing her to this other instructor. I briefed him on what he could expect, telling him he would have a very easy time with her, as she was sign-off material. I think he briefed me a bit, but I don't remember what he said, so it must have been pretty unremarkable.
When I spoke to my new student (996 C4S, around 10 track days experience), he told me the previous instructor would not let him pass anyone, not shift out of 3rd gear, and he basically had to follow people around at low speeds where he could not get any rhythm or learn anything about car dynamics. He seemed to have tried to take it in stride and make the best of it for a while, but he was obviously frustrated enough to ask for a change. He turned out to be a very good student and drove very well. I'm not sure why he was being held back, as it seemed utterly needless.
We lost our morning to fog, and then when that cleared, it began to rain. I learned later that my girlfriend's new instructor had refused to go out with her because "he did not drive in the rain, nor instruct." Further, he informed the CI that (even though he had not ridden with her yet) he wanted to sign her off and leave the event because of the rain. His rationale was that I had told him she was sign-off worthy. At this point I got a buddy of mine to step in so we could invite this instructor to leave.
At dinner that night I quizzed all of the home region friends of mine (members of long standing) to see if anyone knew this guy. No one knew who he was. It was a long time before someone said he knew the guy... sort of. I took the further step of e-mailing the home region CI (not in attendance that event) to make him aware of the situation. This instructor was summarily scratched from the joint region's instructor list, and I imagine had to undergo some re-evaluation by his home region as well.
His behavior showed a decided lack of integrity, and this is not the type of person that will ever instruct for me, nor should he anywhere for that matter.
Here's an example of someone who should not be instructing. On the 2nd day of a 3-day event, I was asked by a CI to trade students with another instructor. I was told there was a "communication problem." My student was my girlfriend, but if it was only a basic communication problem between two people, I was not concerned about handing her to this other instructor. I briefed him on what he could expect, telling him he would have a very easy time with her, as she was sign-off material. I think he briefed me a bit, but I don't remember what he said, so it must have been pretty unremarkable.
When I spoke to my new student (996 C4S, around 10 track days experience), he told me the previous instructor would not let him pass anyone, not shift out of 3rd gear, and he basically had to follow people around at low speeds where he could not get any rhythm or learn anything about car dynamics. He seemed to have tried to take it in stride and make the best of it for a while, but he was obviously frustrated enough to ask for a change. He turned out to be a very good student and drove very well. I'm not sure why he was being held back, as it seemed utterly needless.
We lost our morning to fog, and then when that cleared, it began to rain. I learned later that my girlfriend's new instructor had refused to go out with her because "he did not drive in the rain, nor instruct." Further, he informed the CI that (even though he had not ridden with her yet) he wanted to sign her off and leave the event because of the rain. His rationale was that I had told him she was sign-off worthy. At this point I got a buddy of mine to step in so we could invite this instructor to leave.
At dinner that night I quizzed all of the home region friends of mine (members of long standing) to see if anyone knew this guy. No one knew who he was. It was a long time before someone said he knew the guy... sort of. I took the further step of e-mailing the home region CI (not in attendance that event) to make him aware of the situation. This instructor was summarily scratched from the joint region's instructor list, and I imagine had to undergo some re-evaluation by his home region as well.
His behavior showed a decided lack of integrity, and this is not the type of person that will ever instruct for me, nor should he anywhere for that matter.
02-24-2009, 07:23 PM
#81
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Very informative posts; great reading!
Here's one student's perspective on the different opinions expressed re: Driving skills:
If I'm paying for instruction, I expect to be learning from an authority. If you can't heel/toe, you're just not an authority. Sorry. As I advance, sure, I can expect the gap b/w your authority and my skills to close, but you still have to have mastered more things than I for me to trust that you can help. Your driving skills earn you trust. Without trust, there is no learning.
Speaking of trust, that should be a 4th skill - because I can't imagine getting into the passenger seat of these cars with strangers without having a lot of trust! If you don't trust me, the student, it will show. (see my comment below re: communication skills).
I think that the rest of my input just reinforces the what is generally agreed upon...
On Communication skills:
If you have a lot of things to say, say them before we leave the grid, and after the session is over. On a hot track, don't try to teach me everything you know about the track, the line, my car, etc. in one lap. Prioritize! (BTW, if I tooke the time to prioritize for you, then please take that into consideration vs. pushing your own pet peeves or agenda for the day).
On Temperament:
First, tell me how friggin fast I was even if we were almost black flagged for going too slow!! And don't just tell the easy lie. Make a whole story up about "that turn" or "my vision", or whatever. It has to be a believable lie.
Then, be brutally honest and tell me what sucked and why. Finally, follow up with me (next run, next day, next year... whatever) with a request to demonstrate that I've addressed the things that sucked. In other words, encourage me, correct me, and develop an interest in me.
If you can't meet those expectations, then what student would want you to be their instructor vs. all of the others that can?
Here's one student's perspective on the different opinions expressed re: Driving skills:
If I'm paying for instruction, I expect to be learning from an authority. If you can't heel/toe, you're just not an authority. Sorry. As I advance, sure, I can expect the gap b/w your authority and my skills to close, but you still have to have mastered more things than I for me to trust that you can help. Your driving skills earn you trust. Without trust, there is no learning.
Speaking of trust, that should be a 4th skill - because I can't imagine getting into the passenger seat of these cars with strangers without having a lot of trust! If you don't trust me, the student, it will show. (see my comment below re: communication skills).
I think that the rest of my input just reinforces the what is generally agreed upon...
On Communication skills:
If you have a lot of things to say, say them before we leave the grid, and after the session is over. On a hot track, don't try to teach me everything you know about the track, the line, my car, etc. in one lap. Prioritize! (BTW, if I tooke the time to prioritize for you, then please take that into consideration vs. pushing your own pet peeves or agenda for the day).
On Temperament:
First, tell me how friggin fast I was even if we were almost black flagged for going too slow!! And don't just tell the easy lie. Make a whole story up about "that turn" or "my vision", or whatever. It has to be a believable lie.
Then, be brutally honest and tell me what sucked and why. Finally, follow up with me (next run, next day, next year... whatever) with a request to demonstrate that I've addressed the things that sucked. In other words, encourage me, correct me, and develop an interest in me.If you can't meet those expectations, then what student would want you to be their instructor vs. all of the others that can?
02-24-2009, 08:09 PM
#82
Rennlist Member
If student doesn't seek out instructor for repeat instruction = Instructor FAIL!
If student not grinning ear-to-ear after session = Instructor FAIL!
As simple as that...
If student not grinning ear-to-ear after session = Instructor FAIL!
As simple as that...
02-24-2009, 08:24 PM
#83
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
02-24-2009, 08:26 PM
#84
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
02-24-2009, 08:34 PM
#85
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
