Ray S

I think it could improve flow in the following manner. Most of us have been caught up in a "conga line" of multiple cars that is too deep to allow all of the cars to pass on a single straight. Allowing a pointed pass in the corner could allow the slower car to let all of the build up pass without having to wait for another passing zone.

This could also be helpful for lower hp cars (like my 986) that sometime catch the "passee" off guard by just how much of a lift is necessary to help me get around. It's not so bad if I get an early point and can carry momentum, but if I need to brake, it can be slow to build passing steam before the corner on a short straight.

2000gt3cup

guys it is what has already been said.. situational awareness.. i left DE to club race and could not even close to compete... but what I accomplished and learned was an experience of being aware all over the track not just on the straights...so what I found in Super Solo with PBOC is there are more pass signals than you could imagine...WHY? because everyone is aware they need to give signals when a faster car is approaching, regardless of where you are.... a signal most of the time is given even though NOT necessary .... this year we had one car that was a 2004 GT3 who could out run me on the straights but we were nose to tail all the rest.. so we come in and the angst is running high.. when i was approached i suggested he made a judgement decision not consistent with the event but that was his to make.. he then approached me and we discussed and yes his 2004 GT3 out ran me by a little on the straights but I was on his a-- thru every turn.(if I could post the video i would ) ... he then realized his error and we did not have a problem again.. .... I was running 3-4 seconds faster than him overall... now overall it is a great experience and we should not get so angst..go club racing and you can do what you want when you want .. I did and it is great.....BUT be safe AND NO 13/13.. one of the things PBOC does is self police ...we were asked this year about one driver and he will not be invited back.. he had a metal to metal... that is not the reason ..it is really for all of HIS bad decisions before that ... I am not the fastest person out there and do not have the fastest car.. we must be patient with one another and remember it is for fun.. for the most part I feel there are many more passing signals = least angst... ie...more fun and more awareness.. what a great learning experience... after all that is what DE is all about

93 FireHawk 968

This is a great step forward......I've run with clubs that do allow it and it's worked fine. It certainly mandates enhanced awareness at all times.

todinlaw

I hope this test and others to come go well, as I think it is in part a key to PCA survival in the performance driving world. To much competition which is allowing open passing, many listed above. Our biggest competitor NASA does it in upper run groups. As far as safety like anything else if you take small steps and skill build then it will be ok. As far as PCA future, PCA's weakness in club racing is no learning ground to step up to racing, so guys who want to race have to go to other groups to learn skills. This will go along way in keeping people in the fold while they develop advanced skills.

CornerCarver

Well said.

993inNC

If I may chime in........
If there are people out in a group that "don't get it" then they shouldn't be in that group. There are WAY to many people in these upper groups that just should not be there, they (the student and instructors) focus to much and to quickly on moving up the chain and IMO aren't nearly ready. This IS a high performance driving education, is it not? What are we teaching here? In some posts, I see guys saying "H&T is a must to be an instructor" and should be taught coming out of PCA's blue group. And then there's comments like "people not getting it".
I still don't think there's enough oversight in PCA when it comes to moving people up. IMO, when you are in red, you should be a stone's throw away from a racer. You know all the techniques and are a capable driver. I shouldn't question whether you'll see me as I approach to pass you, because awareness is what you've been teaching. I should be confident that we have a mutual respect for each other's ride and can run close without touching and be comfortable doing it.

"Not getting it" should not be even be part of this conversation (passing in black/red run groups). No offense intended

If you run in my run group, and "don't get it"..........you'll be scared back into lower run groups............right Jackie

sbelles

Is that what you were trying to do drafting me around Daytona last year?

Didn't work.

Besides adding to the fun, passing in the corners will certainly add to a drivers situational awareness. Many who are not racers probably get some tunnel vision in corners since they are not used to having to watch their back until just before a passing zone. If someone is in the upper run groups they should be able to add this task without much problem and it will make them a better driver.

993inNC

which one were you again Not the white 944?
Either way, I'm always in a constant search for guys I can run with on my level, a mental database if you will. I wait to see how long it takes to get a point by.......to long, no good. point as I approach, very good There were a few guys I had a lot of fun with, hope you were one of them Apparently I didn't scare you down a notch

race911

Exactly. Guys give me a point in the Radical (or move over, making it pretty clear they want me to go by) and then don't lift. And then maybe I even fall behind on acceleration! But not only have I generally caught up by the entrance to the turn; maybe I can even outbrake them into the corner (if I wanted to). Prudence generally suggests I just wait until the next safe opportunity, at which the guy will understand he has to back off a smidge and I'll be on my way.

sbelles

Black Boxster. This was actually during the first Octoberfast DE in 2007. I went with PBOC last year.

mdrums

Oh yeah, been on track with ALMS GT1 and 2 cars....amazing!

993inNC

Oh yeah.......didn't you end up with tranny problems or something like that IIRC? Bob Brooks was working on the car?
Yeah we did have fun! I remember you, how are things? We're getting off subject, but good to hear from you. I need to get back down to Florida for some track time. Never done Sebring........hmmm

sbelles

Yep, That's me. I was driving without 4th gear all weekend and then I lost all of them in 1. on Sunday. We did have fun though. No tranny problems lately. Come on down but make sure your fillings are tight.

Scott

J richard

Our region has run open passing in Black/Red since I can remember, as does NASA; both require signoff and a ride along or invitation. Point bys are required (although this tends to be only in less obvious situations) and there is a mandatory download session at the end of each run. Two wheels off, a spin and you bring it it to the hot pits for a checkup with the grid marshall. Aggressive driving, which includes contesting a corner will get you a popped black flag and you're in to the pits for a talking to. Too much of that and your done for the day. The advanced passing rules are simple and easy to understand "no contesting corners" so no dive bombing or pinching the corners, but a clean open pass is fine.

The progression in less restrictive passing in each group is a logical step and balance between opening up new challenges in each group with the skillset of the drivers. We have many very fast shoes in the group, many current or ex racers, but when they are running in a DE they understand that it's not racing, and courtesy is the name of the game. You pretty much know who you are out there with, and understand the speed differential between cars. (the faster traffic/passing flag does get used in the advanced groups) If you pinch someone or pull a no brainer, you go talk to them about it and they will talk to you. Joes comment about keeping the guy behind you is exactly right, in a DE it's courtesy, everyone gets the track space. With the exception of a mechanical failure, I cannot remember an incident in the advanced group. (not so in the Intermediate...way more issues/carnage there, even with passing restrictions)

I think the issue is not if it is getting too close to racing, but what is the next level of advanced driving skills are you learning in your progression from beginner to advanced or instructor? It is Driver"Education" after all. If there is nothing left to learn in the next step then the advanced group is just around to thin out the intermediate field? Situational awareness how to execute a safe and complete pass in a corner, and dealing with speed differential are all critical skills.

Years ago when I was first asked to move into advanced I was scared to death, as it was filled with primarily full racecars and very fast drivers, but now I'd be way more concerned about running in intermediate where you have less skill, courtesy, awareness and sometimes more ego to deal with. I would be bored to tears if there was no open passing in advanced.

The one thing I do take issue with is the "nobody owns the corner" idea. Bad idea IMHO. Why teach a rule that is ultimately contrary to the track rules. I should know when I own the corner, and understand the proper way to safely execute pass. I think the "no contesting corners" works better.

NASA started keeping logbooks for DE's, not a bad idea... and when you travel to another region you know who you're dealing with.

mrbill_fl

^ good post.


I've always been told, It is the overtaking cars responsibility to make the safe pass.

-in racing or DE, or Super solo. the faster 'overtaking' car is still responsible ...