ZAPmobile

Yes, but you can change that in some way. I use to have at our events something called the visiting Pro. A Pro driver who would hold meetings for the upper run groups and anyone one else who wanted to come. They were very well attented.

There are many ways of getting drovers to make the meetings you just have to be creative. You could also give out a free entry to another event everyone likes a freebe

Veloce Raptor

Good points & good ideas. Usually we have decent attendance on Saturday....Sunday not so much!

Veloce Raptor

This is SO true. For quite a while, I was humbled by a couple of SRF drivers here. Of course, my M3 would outmotor them on the straights, but they would kick my *** on the curves. By following them & watching them, I was able to force myself to drive all cars, my own included, like an SRF-type of momentum car, and carry more than SRF speeds in the corners. And none of it was based on equipment!

M758

See I think you are missing the point. I don't consider it a put down. DE's primary purpose is driver traning and instruction. So in that sense 80% of DE drivers don't need to make upgrades to their cars to get fast. They need more seat time.

So maybe 20% of the DE guys are already pretty good and have plateaued to strong level. For these guys upgrades may make more sense. However even then it is just a DE. You are not going to win anything so becareful how much you compromise a street car to be faster in DE. You may not like the end result.

Now of course some have dedicated track cars for DE so you can mod away all you want. Great. Still you cost benefit equation is differenent in DE. Gaining 1 second on 2 minute lap is nice, but is it really worth doubling your tire bill like it would going to Hoosiers? For racer the equation is different. Maybe it is given they want to run up front. However in DE there is nothing to gain. Now you say you enjoey the speed, but if you are flogging the car so hard in DE that you can't get 1 more second on the same gear then you are probably driving too fast for DE. A Paradox no?

Most racers have come from DE and after our first race weekend we realize that in racing everying is turned up a notch. Driving at 10/10ths in DE land is really driving a 8/10th in race land. Heck compared to pro racing I bet club racing is only 8/10th as well. Still once you start to race you realize that how much more the fast guys are getting from the same gear. Same chassis, same tires they get more. The ones that go to "fast" tires and "fast" gear are insanely fast, but it comes a price.

Those that DE now that came from racing know how much more intense racing can be. Now not all racers are like that, but there is a significant difference in the driving intensity of DE and race. Frankly there should be since DE is not racing nor should be racing.


So Comments like that are not intended a put down, but are tring to relay the experience most racers have that DE even at the highest level is a step down the intensity ladder from even club level racing. There is no shame in that, but when DE guys trying make it seem like it is at the same intensity most racers scoff at the idea.

Now how to real pro racers look at club races? Well probably just like club racers look at DE. Fun, but you club guys have NO IDEA what "REAL RACING" is like. Are they right? Probably... Do I care? No... I race at a club level because it is fun and because I can manage it. It might be nice to pro-race one day, but I have a feeling the extra intensity may be too much for my nature. I tend to get involved alot and pro racing may be completly absorbing activity to the detrement of all others.

Nah.. I will still just be a club level racing wanna be... Of course with any luck I will be completing for NASA National championship in 944 spec this september at Miller. This year we had an unofficial regional gathering at Miller and I scored a Pole, a 3rd and 4th so I just might be able to run up front next year. We'll see!

Veloce Raptor

You guys make excellent points IMO. Only insecure folks with brittle egos put down others involved in the sport, at whatever level, for reasons such as these and other things. If you look at top tier working pros, top tier club racers, and even top talent instructors, I think you will find them to be very encouraging of those climbing the ladder. They may help those coming up by discouraging a focus on equipment too early in the learning cycle....but they will do it without condescension or put down. It's pretty easy to discern those willing to help, redirect, and encourage, from the true insecure ******** who so readily show their hot buttons.

M758

Don't forget as well that on message forum a direct response can be seem quite harsh and abrupt. It is not easy to convey tone in text and what would be said face to face in encouraging helpful manner can come across a little harsh in text.

"You don't need Hoosiers!" Can be interpreted harsly in text only, but a verbal delivery can completly change the tone from "You don't need Hoosiers you DE Idiot!" to "Well I really really don't think you need hoosiers to be fast. What tires are you on now? How are they wearing down? Lets talk about this..."

ZAPmobile

TheOtherEric

+1e6.

Bull

Right, and many DE participants feel the same way about how CRs feel.

Bull

That would be a great beginning to an answer to the question "Do I need Hoosiers to be fast"?

IIRC, this whole thing began in another thread when a poster asked about other's experiences running A6 Hoosiers at track events (not R6s). He seemed to want to know how well they perform and how long they will last.

I guess I don't feel a desire to tell others what they "need" unless they specifically ask me, and I sure as hell wouldn't want others to tell me what I "need" when I haven't asked!

Larry Herman

Well THAT explains a lot!

BlueRiver86

Right click, save as.

DogInBlack

DING, DING, DING- Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!!!!!

Bull

I hope so!

Seth Thomas

As a lot of people have said already I agree with this quote the most. This basically sums it up.

I instruct at DEs locally when I get a chance. The reason I do this is because it is fun, I get to relax at the track and I get to pass along the knowledge of what it takes to drive a car fast to someone else. A DE environment is not as adrenaline pumping as club racing or pro racing. What it does though is establish a starting point for anybody who wants to go race. This is how I got started racing and I try to share my experience with others. I was one of the guys who wanted to have all the go fast parts for a DE. Now I feel like I am smarter with my money after that. I don't have the fastest tires on my DE car or the best suspension. I don't need it. So I always try to talk to people about how to approach DEs with more of a learning attitude than a full on Speed attitude.