Phokaioglaukos

Geoffrey, Chris Maume at Prosure and Dan Thompson at MotorsportCoverage.com offer the same WSIB policy (underwritten by brokers at Lloyd's) and it's not a street-style policy. It was adapted from a UK racing policy. As currently offered (at least by Dan), it's a pretty good form. It is not "agreed value", though. A claim is for the cost of repair or replacement, whichever is less. It made sense for me this year tracking a street GT3, but it probably would not for a $20,000 car.

I think someone posted info on Chris. You can get Dan here:

Daniel P. Thompson
Regional Vice President
MotorsportCoverage.com
Capacity Coverage Company
One International Blvd.,
Mahwah, NJ 07495
Direct Dial: 201-661-2441
Direct Fax: 201-661-7788
dthompson@capcoverage.com

bella1

Insurance is governed by state law. In Virginia, policy form V-1013-A (05-07) Edition Date; Part A Collision and Other than Collison Coverage and Part B Liability

Exclusions:

"We will not pay for:

(12) Loss to your covered auto or any non-owned auto, located inside a facility designed for racing, for the purpose of:

a. Competing in; or
b. Practicing or preparing for;

any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest."

Another Exclusion under Part B Laibility states:

B. We do not provide Liability Coverage for the ownership, maintenance, or use of:

1. Any vehicle which:
a. has fewer than four wheels; or
b. is designed mainly for use off public roads.

When you read the PCA DE rules and then compare that with the policy language for the VA Auto Policy Form, it is not clear to this insurance agent how coverage might apply. One could argue either side successfully.

If your car is not licensed for road use and is used only on the track, then your car is not designed mainly for use on public roads; therefore, track prepared cars in the DE environment have NO liability coverage. Collison and Other than Collision physical damage is not mentioned but there is more language about custom work.

Finally, if a standard insurer does decide to cover a DE claim, you can be sure it will not happen again. The insurer will either delete the high performance vehicle or perhaps non renew the policy altogether.

Bob Rouleau

Here are a few thoughts from the perspective of a PCA DE event organizer:

1) We have been warning participants that their insurance coverage may not apply at a DE for years. For those that worry, they should contact their insurance company to be sure.

2) We make every effort to make DE comply with standrd insurance coverage language. For example there are a few RL folks who have heard my driver's meeting speech and the words "this is not racing and timing is strictly forbidden". That's to ensure that our DE is not considered a "speed event" since the litmus test of same is timing.

3) I believe that the risk at a track event is very much under the control of the driver him/herself. I shudder when I hear people saying they bought a disposable car for track. In my mind, those are likely to be the ones that cause me to fill in an Incident Report. The underlying assumption is that a guy with an expensive car which is probably uninsured on the track will be more prudent than a guy with a cheap beater who doesn't care if it gets stuffed into a wall. In this regard, no insurance is a good thing.

4) I agree with Professor Tester's earlier comment. When I look at a typical DE lately, I see a significant percentage of the paddock occupied by guys in race suits driving race cars. Said race cars come to the events in big rigs which sometimes make me wonder if we are having a DE or did I mistakenly show up at an ALMS race! I can see how it might be difficult for an insurance adjuster to distinguish between a race and a PCA/BMW etc. DE.

In simpler times, DE was populated mostly by street cars which were driven to the event. That at least lent some credence to the notion that it was 'Driver Education". Today .. well, let's say it is harder to explain.

5) In sum, if you're worried, buy track insurance, or simply avoid unnecessary risks.

I also agree with Mother Superior, I think driving on the highway is a greater risk thasn a prudent driver at DE. A brake failure or blowout on a crowded freeway is a lot scarier than on a race track. On the other hand, some people (Instructors and CIs can sound off here) with more ***** than skill drive like absolute idiots on the race track and are accidents looking for a place to happen .. and they usually succeed.

Best,

Geoffrey

And that presents a problem for many particpants. Our Region along with CVR and other PCA Regions support and encourage the use of Beacons and GPS data acqusition systems which help with driver's education. Once you reach a certain level, this is one of the most effective ways to identify areas where your skill can be improved. Fortunately, PCA National's DE Minimum standards do not exclude beacon and other GPS devices that provide information about vehicle dynamics and driver's input.

gottagofast13

This is Ryan Staub with the HPDE Insurance Program. I can tell you that our policy doesn't report to the claim reporting agencies used by standard/street insurers. Your on-track claim with us will not effect your street policy rates.

Someone mentioned single-event insurance, and that's what we're providing. With this method, we seem to be attracting the average enthusiast that does less than 7 events/year. Eventually we will be offering an annual policy, but we want to make sure not to fail where other annual policy programs have (like American Collectors that was referenced in the article).

If you have questions about what we have to offer, feel free to visit our website http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com or e-mail us at hpdeins@locktonaffinity.com

Bob Rouleau

Geoffrey since I run with a number of regions in Zone 1 I am aware that some tolerate timing "strictly for educational purposes". Personally I don't think that the wording would help some poor sucker who tries to get his insurance company to pay a claim. The courts have upheld timing as proof of a speed event. So, you pays your money and takes your chances.

There is another consideration we (Rennsport Region) are aware of. Timing might encourage people to take risks trying to shave off that additional second or fraction. That might lead to a loss of control and potentially an "incident".


Regards,

gums

One can also be clean of any timing device on the car by using a video camera and then timing the laps yourself when you replay them.

DarkSideDE

Bob,

I'd like to add one thing to your list for Event Organizers. That would be to carefully go over any material they are handing out to their registrants. It may even pay for the club to use an attorney - to edit. Making sure that it is truly clear that there is no racing going on when a Driver Ed is being given.

*************

It sure helped our claim!

Bob Rouleau

gums - my region has no problem with timing done off video since it is after the fact and not likely to encourage a driver to shave off some time the way a hot lap timer might.

Darkside - yup we did that too and our published material and hand outs have been carefully studied for exactly the reason you stated. Good idea for all regions and I bet some of the timing for educational purposes will rapidly disappear

Best,

DrJupeman

Whatever lets you sleep at night...

Brian P

I agree that the odds of an accident occurring on the track are higher than on the highway, but are the costs the same? The big accidents on the track almost always result in the car being a write-off, but the driver (and possibly instructor) walk away without injury.

On the highway there are generally more multi-car accidents which then tends to lead to a greater chance of medical costs, which can rapidly escalate to more than the value of the cars.

When I put a DE claim through to my insurance company, it seemed that they didn't really care that it happened on the track. Once I told them there were no injuries, all questioning stopped and they told me how the coverage works.

lawjdc

State Farm policies written in Nevada had no exclusion until December of last year, when they slipped one in. But for a $570 / 6 months rate, I really can't complain.

David K.

I just read my NJ State Farm policie and it has the exclusion.

Mikelly

So Bob, What's the answer? Force those guys with the race/suits/big rigs/dedicated high end track cars to go racing?

I agree that the face of DE has changed a lot since I attended my first one in 1987. But what's the answer?

Interesting read, and an interesting thread for sure...
Mike

TT Gasman

We had a car totalled this weekend at our DE, thanks God the driver is ok. It makes you think twice about these things. DEs have changed a lot over the last 10 years, I see lots of dedicated track cars(some good some not so much), thrown together with street cars in the upper run groups.