Veloce Raptor

Next time we're there, Russell, I will show you what I mean. It all comes back to having fewer inputs on the car up the hill, which result in more stability & speed down the hill. I gain amazing ground on otherwise fast folks in this section....

ervtx

I KNEW it... I see an invoice coming...

BTW, BYO Shelf Liner.

Veloce Raptor

Hahahahaaaa! Don't worry, as far as you'll know, I won't shart in your passenger seat.

George A

Ok, here is me getting some fruitcake: http://www.vimeo.com/1800748

Dave, I uploaded part of a session at EC. You can see it at: http://www.vimeo.com/1802659
I'll upload the large one on my website.

G.

Veloce Raptor

LMAO...I did that entire last lap after the Toilet Bowl in 5th gear.

George A

You get into 5th gear? Do you have shorter gears or ring? Or were you just lugging it?

BTW, did you notice who I passed at the begging of the video? I was behind her since nearly the beginning of the session. I cut that out (lots of bad words and gestures).

G.

Veloce Raptor

I was rolling at like 1800 RPM. Actually I downshifted to 4th for the uphill leading to Tombstone, then back to 5th. I did not get to 5th when running hard, though. Was near redline in 4th before braking for Rattlesnake.

Yes, I noticed the Corvette. Didn't want to say anything lest its drover lurked here...

mpaton

I could not disagree more, although I'll concede that it's hard to see what's happening from the video.

What Russell is doing, (at my suggestion) is to arrange the line so that he is pulling NO lateral Gs as the car goes light on its wheels over the crest of the hill. That way, there is no possibility of the car getting out of shape over the crest.

The advantage of that is that he can stay on the gas all the way from the hairpin, all the way to the braking zone at the Toilet Bowl.

Because the car is under power all the way it is already at its most stable, and it is also stable over the crest.

Furthermore your comment about braking at the compression at the bottom exposes the flaw in your argument. A 996 NA taken flat out all the way up and over the crest cannot possibly delay braking until the compression at the bottom, because it is going way too fast.

I'm sure your own lighter and more nimble underpowered BMW can change direction from its lower corner entry speed there, but what Russell is doing is spot on.

Russell, like I tell you when I ride with you or any other advanced student, the instructors all have ideas for you to try out and to evaluate for yourself.

Personally I'm perfectly happy to fly over the crest of the hill when driving a 911. Done lots of rallies in a rear engined car, flown over lots of crests at similar speeds, AND I usually never knew for certain where the road went after the crest. However there is no way in the world I'm teaching that at a DE. I've also seen many drivers turning while car is light on its wheels, and they have no idea why that car is unstable or how low their safety margins are.

Dave, time you got your own 911 :-)

Michael

Veloce Raptor

Michael, all that theory sounds great, but it does not play out.

For one thing, he has steering angle as he crests. My suggestion would eliminate that, allowing him to truly go straight over the top with gas.

If he does this, he will come downslope along side & parallel the curbing on the right, also giving him a MUCH longer brake zone.

For another thing, yes you can brake at the beginning of the compression in a 996 when taking Russell's wide entry line. I have done it! But it requires being right next to and parallel to the right side curbing, not displaced from it IMO.

George A

Michael, I'm going to have to side with fruitcake here. Watch my video......

Once the car settles over the crest, you can start loading it with lat g's. It does not upset the car unless you lift off the gas. I hug the right side curbing and brake at the depression.

BTW, I'm the only one with a 911 between the three of us......

G.

ervtx

BTW, I'm the only one with the data.

From the first lap in the video...

Red = mph
Blue = lateral acceleration
Yellow = longitudinal acceleration

Veloce Raptor

Blue line shoes some steering lock applied, as was evident in the video. Russell, you are very close, just a nuance away from being a bit faster there.

I love how G-spot calls me "fruitcake".

joseph mitro

was that your 993 racecar? since talking to you, i've become a "tire hog" also got several sets on the way.

VR...watching George's video, I understand the concept of getting the wheel straight over the hill into toilet bowl like you were telling me, just can't visualize how. are you suggesting i touch the rumble strip on the right just before cresting the hill, and early apex the rumble strip on the top of the hill, OR actually be mid track, away from the right-hand rumble strip and basically go straight over the hill from there?

Veloce Raptor

EXCELLENT question. Sort of a combination of both:

Be ~1/2 car width away from the right hand rumble strip, then just clip the left hand rumble strip AS YOU STRAIGHTEN THE WHEEL (even if it is just momentarily). This puts less right side loading on the chassis, followed by less left side loading, so you end up with less side to side pendulum effect, are straight just as you crest, and can ride more throttle all the way over with a relatively settled chassis. It will put you very close to the grass on the right side, followed by the right side curbing, but that is exactly where you want to be!

I really need to get a camera in my car....

Toby Pennycuff

If I recall, getting right at the left side of the track at the top of the hill allows you to go straight down with few, if any steering inputs. I stay on the gas all the way downhill with few steering inputs and brake just at the bottom of the hill (probably too early - I'm working on that!).