Maverick PCA at MSR (3.1) Sept 20-21
09-29-2008, 09:01 AM
#421
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09-29-2008, 09:03 AM
#422
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Your kid was not screaming as you crashed into a tree, was she?
Come on, G, you're just disagreeing to disagree.
Greg, here was my take from a few car lengths behind, in no particular order:
--he REALLY did not want to point me by
--he was driving his mirrors a lot
--previous lap to the crash, I saw him significantly displace that apex, which is a no-no, and go way wide at track out (big time off camber * dirty), so I backed off the next time thru (thankfully)
--that car is uber-fast in a straight line, but he was choppy in the corners
--did I mention he was driving his mirrors?
--the lap of the crash, he again displaced that apex, and went literally to the edge of the track out off camber
--rear got loose, but not bad
--he appeared to correct
--the car then appeared to suddenly get a lot of grip (as often happens in these situations) and rotate the opposite direction aggressively
Come on, G, you're just disagreeing to disagree.
Greg, here was my take from a few car lengths behind, in no particular order:
--he REALLY did not want to point me by
--he was driving his mirrors a lot
--previous lap to the crash, I saw him significantly displace that apex, which is a no-no, and go way wide at track out (big time off camber * dirty), so I backed off the next time thru (thankfully)
--that car is uber-fast in a straight line, but he was choppy in the corners
--did I mention he was driving his mirrors?
--the lap of the crash, he again displaced that apex, and went literally to the edge of the track out off camber
--rear got loose, but not bad
--he appeared to correct
--the car then appeared to suddenly get a lot of grip (as often happens in these situations) and rotate the opposite direction aggressively
09-29-2008, 09:47 AM
#423
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That is the only turn on that track that I don't attack aggressively. I had a scare at the first CR on 3.1 and I’m still a little ginger through there. Check this out, both sides can be dangerous:
http://www.vimeo.com/1836798
Dave, the kid wasn't hurt. If he was, that would be a different story.
G.
http://www.vimeo.com/1836798
Dave, the kid wasn't hurt. If he was, that would be a different story.
G.
09-29-2008, 10:57 AM
#424
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OK, George. Let's just disagree on this.
09-29-2008, 11:53 AM
#425
I had a scare at the first CR on 3.1 and I’m still a little ginger through there. Check this out, both sides can be dangerous:
http://www.vimeo.com/1836798
http://www.vimeo.com/1836798
Also, I notice in the 993 video, he's hitting 80 around turn in. Much bigger cajones than me - by around 10 MPH.
-td
09-29-2008, 11:54 AM
#426
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When I watched the video, the first thing that caught my attention in that turn was that he was starting his turn in from too far over to the right side which, even if he hit the apex, would put him on a line off the outside edge of the track on track-out.
George, that video of you spinning off there is very scary for what could have happened. Glad it wasn't anything worse. What was the root cause? Just too much speed for the turn? It looked like you were really hauling it through there.
I used to wait too long to start my turn-in on T5 and that was causing me to go wide of the apex. I really have to start my turn-in a beat earlier than my instincts tell me to. When I begin the turn in there, I still really can't see the apex itself. If I wait until I can see the apex to turn, then I'm too late. Does that jive with what y'all experience there? Of course, I'm also not carrying nearly the speed some of you guys are there.
George, that video of you spinning off there is very scary for what could have happened. Glad it wasn't anything worse. What was the root cause? Just too much speed for the turn? It looked like you were really hauling it through there.
I used to wait too long to start my turn-in on T5 and that was causing me to go wide of the apex. I really have to start my turn-in a beat earlier than my instincts tell me to. When I begin the turn in there, I still really can't see the apex itself. If I wait until I can see the apex to turn, then I'm too late. Does that jive with what y'all experience there? Of course, I'm also not carrying nearly the speed some of you guys are there.
09-29-2008, 12:02 PM
#427
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When I watched the video, the first thing that caught my attention in that turn was that he was starting his turn in from too far over to the right side which, even if he hit the apex, would put him on a line off the outside edge of the track on track-out.
George, that video of you spinning off there is very scary for what could have happened. Glad it wasn't anything worse. What was the root cause? Just too much speed for the turn? It looked like you were really hauling it through there.
I used to wait too long to start my turn-in on T5 and that was causing me to go wide of the apex. I really have to start my turn-in a beat earlier than my instincts tell me to. When I begin the turn in there, I still really can't see the apex itself. If I wait until I can see the apex to turn, then I'm too late. Does that jive with what y'all experience there? Of course, I'm also not carrying nearly the speed some of you guys are there.
George, that video of you spinning off there is very scary for what could have happened. Glad it wasn't anything worse. What was the root cause? Just too much speed for the turn? It looked like you were really hauling it through there.
I used to wait too long to start my turn-in on T5 and that was causing me to go wide of the apex. I really have to start my turn-in a beat earlier than my instincts tell me to. When I begin the turn in there, I still really can't see the apex itself. If I wait until I can see the apex to turn, then I'm too late. Does that jive with what y'all experience there? Of course, I'm also not carrying nearly the speed some of you guys are there.
Yup, gotta start turning in wide & relatively early.
09-29-2008, 12:10 PM
#428
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Yup, I tried to do a slightly later apex but I guess the track was really dirty out there. It wasn't the speed. For some reason, the track still gets very dirty there. I did get away with one in my opinion.
G.
G.
09-29-2008, 12:14 PM
#429
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Why Jack doesn't fix this apex is beyond me. Hell, it disintegrated the first weekend it was used when we were there in 2006, and has never been addressed.
09-29-2008, 12:31 PM
#430
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I think what happens is, cars apexing carry all sorts of pebbles & debris from the disintegrating track surface to track out, where they collect just off line.
Why Jack doesn't fix this apex is beyond me. Hell, it disintegrated the first weekend it was used when we were there in 2006, and has never been addressed.
Why Jack doesn't fix this apex is beyond me. Hell, it disintegrated the first weekend it was used when we were there in 2006, and has never been addressed.
G.
09-29-2008, 03:29 PM
#432
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09-29-2008, 08:36 PM
#433
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I've been away playing tow truck and track car but my opinion on Mike posting bryce's crash...
1)he films everything
2)he posts everything
3)lets learn something
4)everyone is okay
TD- you're probably a better driver now and therefore making the mistake of actually hitting that apex there- you really need to displace that otherwise...well you see it has a way of unsettling the car...
1)he films everything
2)he posts everything
3)lets learn something
4)everyone is okay
TD- you're probably a better driver now and therefore making the mistake of actually hitting that apex there- you really need to displace that otherwise...well you see it has a way of unsettling the car...
09-29-2008, 08:43 PM
#434
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Disagree. He crashed in part BECAUSE he displaced it. Displacing it puts you too far out in track out, where it goes dangerously off camber (and you can see the results). Best results are hitting the apex with wheels nearly straight IMO.
09-29-2008, 10:04 PM
#435
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VR- if you hit the apex you better have your wheels straight and or amazing rally skills. in a miata or an m3 it's not so bad to hit the apex but in a 911 it's a lot better to take a nice smooth arc around that portion with a pretty late apex.
either way it's a section of the track where you've got to anticipate the inherent evil of a rear engined car
either way it's a section of the track where you've got to anticipate the inherent evil of a rear engined car