RA-1's faster than R888's?
04-21-2008, 10:47 PM
#61
just was about to pull a trigger on the r888's for my 997s but then heard that unless i get the gt3 control arms to get at least -1.5 camber up front, the tires will not do well..in fact the question i have is that if i go to r compounds, should i do the camber changes .. a little afraid of making 2 changes at once but also the toyo website and people here talk about needing camber and i am at best -1.0 up front....-2.0 back..still a lot of side wear but better than my original stock camber of about -.8 front...with stock camber went thru a set of ps2's in 2 days de! now this set 5 days and counting
so to reiterate, get the r compounds alone or get the gt3 arms and increase camber to best utilize the r compounds..
\?
mdrums, you are running stock set up with ra1's do you notice a lot of outer wear still?
thanks
mk
so to reiterate, get the r compounds alone or get the gt3 arms and increase camber to best utilize the r compounds..
\?
mdrums, you are running stock set up with ra1's do you notice a lot of outer wear still?
thanks
mk
04-21-2008, 10:57 PM
#62
For good measure, I'm installing the GT3 lower control arms. The part numbers for my 00 C2 are below. Pricing is around $275 per side.
996-341-121-90 - right conrol arm
996-341-122-90 - left control arm
996-341-441-90 - inner arm (x2)
various shims for camber setting
connecting pieces (nuts and washers)
-td
04-22-2008, 02:57 AM
#63
Addict
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Austin...a little about me...I do not have a left leg so a GT3 or any other manual is out of the question for me. I drive a Tip for now. I am currently on RA1's and had PS2's before that. I use the RA1's and am looking at the Nitto's mostly due to cost and they do offer a little more grip. I think the Nitto's will be less than the R888's so I will go with those maybe.
From what everyone says the Nitto's are a lower buy in price than the alternatives, and like you mentioned will survive the drive to the track and back. I'd still consider the toe links with the monoballs at the inboard junction, they'll help the rear control arms to hold the wheel carrier pointed in the right direction. When the time comes, I still have a ton of mental notes on the 997 C2S set up and components, even with the PASM. A friend of mine went down the track and time trial road with his over the past few years and we both learned. You can put all the 997 Grand Am Rolex components on that car and it will turn some serious lap times. The newer tip gear boxes are no joke either.
Check with Nitto about doing a sponsorship type of program for Time Trialing, not the Porsche club Time Trialing, but NASA, SCCA, or something like that. They might come up with a free or 50% off set for a 1/2 season of testing on your car and review. They're really super motivated.
04-22-2008, 10:01 AM
#64
Race Director
From what everyone says the Nitto's are a lower buy in price than the alternatives, and like you mentioned will survive the drive to the track and back. I'd still consider the toe links with the monoballs at the inboard junction, they'll help the rear control arms to hold the wheel carrier pointed in the right direction. When the time comes, I still have a ton of mental notes on the 997 C2S set up and components, even with the PASM. A friend of mine went down the track and time trial road with his over the past few years and we both learned. You can put all the 997 Grand Am Rolex components on that car and it will turn some serious lap times. The newer tip gear boxes are no joke either.
Check with Nitto about doing a sponsorship type of program for Time Trialing, not the Porsche club Time Trialing, but NASA, SCCA, or something like that. They might come up with a free or 50% off set for a 1/2 season of testing on your car and review. They're really super motivated.
Check with Nitto about doing a sponsorship type of program for Time Trialing, not the Porsche club Time Trialing, but NASA, SCCA, or something like that. They might come up with a free or 50% off set for a 1/2 season of testing on your car and review. They're really super motivated.
Austin, thanks for the info. Anything you want to send my way on tests, thoughts and what you have seen works and does not work on my 997S I would appreciate. I do not want to throw a bunch of money into this car since it is a everyday driver almost and there is a great chance it will be gone at the end of this year for a new 09 with PDK. But if there is some simple things I can do that do not cost much I might try them out and hope they will fit the 09.
The car is stock except for Fabspeed mufflers for better sound, the best track alignment I could get with the stock suspension -1.06 front -1.6 rear and we took a lot of the toe out for better tire wear and turn in. I am on Toyo RA1's right now for DE only. Still deciding on what to do for brake pads. I need new pads for my next DE May 31st.
Thanks!
04-22-2008, 11:32 AM
#65
Race Director
My fast guy would start about the same, but maybe a tad lower since he was shooting for a lower hot pressure. I think the pressure gain is the same for the RA1 as the R888, but I do not know yet.
04-22-2008, 11:34 AM
#66
Race Director
What I think it stupid about World Challenge is that they allow these new trick trannies with the dog ring gears and such but make the cars run on tires that are obviously below the range of the cars and still trying to consider the series not based on money. It's retarded.
They should allow R6 at the very least, maybe an entry level full non-dot slick and an R888 as a rain tire, not as the primary.
They should allow R6 at the very least, maybe an entry level full non-dot slick and an R888 as a rain tire, not as the primary.
Toyo is the tire SPONSOR... They all run the same tire so they are even on that level and we all know racing needs money. Grand-am also uses spec tires and for that mater even F1 does. Why? Money...
04-23-2008, 12:34 AM
#67
I tested it out a lot at VIR a month ago on my new set of R888's... It took me 28 cold all around to reach 38 hot, or else it was going over a bit and not feeling good at all!
04-23-2008, 12:48 AM
#68
Rennlist Member
The tires is a great formula for the series. set up becomes much more important, and the cars are still running faster thatn any car you have seen on DOTs. Do you remember their 2:14 at Road America on DOT RA1's. These tires are plenty fast, and changing to a full slick would defeat the purpose of the "production cars on steroids " theme. 
These are great tires and are plenty fast for any club racer. real slicks probably would only be 2-3 seconds faster , if that. Look at long beach times for the GT3RS vs the speedWorld challenge GT3 cup cars with motorsport upgraded engines, with restrictors, but on DOTs. 1:26s vs 1:23s. the GT3RS ALMS cars are lighter and have more power.
They wanted a sprint race series that used a single all purpose tire that could be used in hot or cold conditions and had no issues with durability. with those goals, the RA1 fit the bill.
What was stupid was when the series use the real STREET tire, the T1S 280 tread wear rated tires. now that was dumb!
The cars then all ran so slow, most club racers on DOTs were faster.
mk
These are great tires and are plenty fast for any club racer. real slicks probably would only be 2-3 seconds faster , if that. Look at long beach times for the GT3RS vs the speedWorld challenge GT3 cup cars with motorsport upgraded engines, with restrictors, but on DOTs. 1:26s vs 1:23s. the GT3RS ALMS cars are lighter and have more power.
They wanted a sprint race series that used a single all purpose tire that could be used in hot or cold conditions and had no issues with durability. with those goals, the RA1 fit the bill.
What was stupid was when the series use the real STREET tire, the T1S 280 tread wear rated tires. now that was dumb!
The cars then all ran so slow, most club racers on DOTs were faster.
mk
What I think it stupid about World Challenge is that they allow these new trick trannies with the dog ring gears and such but make the cars run on tires that are obviously below the range of the cars and still trying to consider the series not based on money. It's retarded.
They should allow R6 at the very least, maybe an entry level full non-dot slick and an R888 as a rain tire, not as the primary.
They should allow R6 at the very least, maybe an entry level full non-dot slick and an R888 as a rain tire, not as the primary.
04-23-2008, 04:18 AM
#69
Race Director
mkk62, yes if you can do the GT3 arms and get the -2 camber you will be much better off. I have just the stock arms with only -1 camber but still run the Toyo's. I have 6 DE's on them now and will flip the front's around before my next DE.
I suggest you have Vortex Motorsport's in Tampa do your GT3 arms. They are really good with alingment.
I suggest you have Vortex Motorsport's in Tampa do your GT3 arms. They are really good with alingment.
04-23-2008, 08:22 PM
#70
At the GGR-PCA event this past w/e at Thunderhill there were lots of folks running the R888.
One car was a 500hp 993tt at about 3500lbs running them shaved to 4mm at 49 repeat 49 hot and loving them. They were toast by end of two days running around 2:07's.
Another was a 6gt3 at about 3200lbs running them unshaved at 36 hot and liking them ok. They looked none the worse for wear at the end of 3 days. He was running 2:07/2:08 lap times.
A BSX running them unshaved at unknown pressures was making more noise from the tires than from the car going into turn 1. The noise is the one consistent quality everyone experienced with them.
Its the great howling herringbone experience.
One car was a 500hp 993tt at about 3500lbs running them shaved to 4mm at 49 repeat 49 hot and loving them. They were toast by end of two days running around 2:07's.
Another was a 6gt3 at about 3200lbs running them unshaved at 36 hot and liking them ok. They looked none the worse for wear at the end of 3 days. He was running 2:07/2:08 lap times.
A BSX running them unshaved at unknown pressures was making more noise from the tires than from the car going into turn 1. The noise is the one consistent quality everyone experienced with them.
Its the great howling herringbone experience.
Last edited by 4ng crcs; 04-23-2008 at 08:40 PM.
04-23-2008, 09:10 PM
#71
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Is the high 30's the typical range the Toyo guys run? I'll be trying my first set of the Nitto's in a couple of weeks and I figure that tire would work in the same range as the Toyo. I'm coming from MPSC where I ran them at 35 hot.
04-23-2008, 10:45 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
At the GGR-PCA event this past w/e at Thunderhill there were lots of folks running the R888.
One car was a 500hp 993tt at about 3500lbs running them shaved to 4mm at 49 repeat 49 hot and loving them. They were toast by end of two days running around 2:07's.
Another was a 6gt3 at about 3200lbs running them unshaved at 36 hot and liking them ok. They looked none the worse for wear at the end of 3 days. He was running 2:07/2:08 lap times.
A BSX running them unshaved at unknown pressures was making more noise from the tires than from the car going into turn 1. The noise is the one consistent quality everyone experienced with them.
Its the great howling herringbone experience.
One car was a 500hp 993tt at about 3500lbs running them shaved to 4mm at 49 repeat 49 hot and loving them. They were toast by end of two days running around 2:07's.
Another was a 6gt3 at about 3200lbs running them unshaved at 36 hot and liking them ok. They looked none the worse for wear at the end of 3 days. He was running 2:07/2:08 lap times.
A BSX running them unshaved at unknown pressures was making more noise from the tires than from the car going into turn 1. The noise is the one consistent quality everyone experienced with them.
Its the great howling herringbone experience.
Mike get the pagid yellows and call it a day. I think you will be surprised how good they are on the street. dont need warm up to drive on the street, brake fine and quite honestly mine make little to no noise. and when they do it gives me good memories. Stop stressing over the pads and get them, there really is no down side.
As for R compound tires and street camber, no R compound tire likes or performs at its best with minimal camber.
remember I run -3.0 front and -2.7 rear. and my tires wear evenly.
camber plates my friend.
04-23-2008, 11:52 PM
#74
Race Director
Tom, as always you are right!
04-24-2008, 12:43 AM
#75
Rennlist Member
Thats pretty funny. "49 and loving them". And, the punchline is running 2:07s, a time i ran with a 1979 928 right from the junk yard, sporting a wopping 200hp!
Trust me, a 500hp TT should be running near 2min flat on properly inflated tires and someone that knows their way around t-hill. Vipers can do this all day long, and guess what, their tires wont have a PSI over 38 hot !
in my car, Ill run 2:02-03s till the cows come home , and use the tires for 2 more race weekends! (again, properly inflated)
a side note, the camber settings is not a tire thing, but a suspension design thing. I run near 2degrees all the way around which works well. (more like 1.7 degrees up front) this is because of the 928 suspension design. this might not work on a 911 which might require more camber, where another type of car might also need a different setting.
mk
Trust me, a 500hp TT should be running near 2min flat on properly inflated tires and someone that knows their way around t-hill. Vipers can do this all day long, and guess what, their tires wont have a PSI over 38 hot !
in my car, Ill run 2:02-03s till the cows come home , and use the tires for 2 more race weekends! (again, properly inflated)
a side note, the camber settings is not a tire thing, but a suspension design thing. I run near 2degrees all the way around which works well. (more like 1.7 degrees up front) this is because of the 928 suspension design. this might not work on a 911 which might require more camber, where another type of car might also need a different setting.
mk
At the GGR-PCA event this past w/e at Thunderhill there were lots of folks running the R888.
One car was a 500hp 993tt at about 3500lbs running them shaved to 4mm at 49 repeat 49 hot and loving them. They were toast by end of two days running around 2:07's.
Another was a 6gt3 at about 3200lbs running them unshaved at 36 hot and liking them ok. They looked none the worse for wear at the end of 3 days. He was running 2:07/2:08 lap times.
A BSX running them unshaved at unknown pressures was making more noise from the tires than from the car going into turn 1. The noise is the one consistent quality everyone experienced with them.
Its the great howling herringbone experience.
One car was a 500hp 993tt at about 3500lbs running them shaved to 4mm at 49 repeat 49 hot and loving them. They were toast by end of two days running around 2:07's.
Another was a 6gt3 at about 3200lbs running them unshaved at 36 hot and liking them ok. They looked none the worse for wear at the end of 3 days. He was running 2:07/2:08 lap times.
A BSX running them unshaved at unknown pressures was making more noise from the tires than from the car going into turn 1. The noise is the one consistent quality everyone experienced with them.
Its the great howling herringbone experience.
