2008 GTS Challenge
06-29-2008, 04:29 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
1850 pounds
217 RWHP
169 torque
217+169=386
386/2= 193
1850/193= 9.58
I think I did that right
The following table displays the class each car will be in after the previous calculation is applied to each cars dynamometer results.
D.O.T.
Race Tires Non-D.O.T.
Race Tires (slicks)
GTSU = Non-Certified Cars — NO POINTS
GTS5 = 6.0 – 8.49 GTS5 = 6.5 – 8.99
GTS4 = 8.5 – 10.99 GTS4 = 9.0 – 11.99
GTS3 = 11.0 – 14.49 GTS3 = 12.0 – 15.99
GTS2 = 14.50 – 18.49 GTS2 = 16.0 – 19.99
GTS1 = 18.50 and higher GTS1 = 20.0 and higher
217 RWHP
169 torque
217+169=386
386/2= 193
1850/193= 9.58
I think I did that right
The following table displays the class each car will be in after the previous calculation is applied to each cars dynamometer results.
D.O.T.
Race Tires Non-D.O.T.
Race Tires (slicks)
GTSU = Non-Certified Cars — NO POINTS
GTS5 = 6.0 – 8.49 GTS5 = 6.5 – 8.99
GTS4 = 8.5 – 10.99 GTS4 = 9.0 – 11.99
GTS3 = 11.0 – 14.49 GTS3 = 12.0 – 15.99
GTS2 = 14.50 – 18.49 GTS2 = 16.0 – 19.99
GTS1 = 18.50 and higher GTS1 = 20.0 and higher
06-29-2008, 07:46 PM
#48
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1850/217=8.53
Looks like you might need to eat a lot more doughnuts.
06-29-2008, 07:56 PM
#49
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How much fuel on board for weighing the car?
06-29-2008, 08:05 PM
#50
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It doesn't specify fuel load but you will get weighed with a podium finish. That weight will be checked against your RWHP recorded on your certified dyno sheet. So, if it's real close you'll have to make sure you don't fall out of class and get DQ'd....
06-29-2008, 09:11 PM
#51
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Okay first I want to say I am not posting this to cause any trouble - it is simply what I have heard and nothing more. It is not from a biased person either. And I am simply asking for information purposes only - not to cause a debate.
I was told that the level of talent OVERALL is not as good as found in both PCA Club Racing and even more so in SCCA. Again this is from an OVERALL perspective - not meant as an insult to any individual driver! Can anyone with experience in both or all 3 organizations comment on this? One with a neutral perpective - not someone who wins or does very well in only one!
There are SOME very fast guys in PCA - especcially in the spec classes like GTC1 through GTC4 - even guys like Brent Martini run there at some races. SCCA has some VERY close competition.
Please comment without being dogmatic about it.
I was told that the level of talent OVERALL is not as good as found in both PCA Club Racing and even more so in SCCA. Again this is from an OVERALL perspective - not meant as an insult to any individual driver! Can anyone with experience in both or all 3 organizations comment on this? One with a neutral perpective - not someone who wins or does very well in only one!
There are SOME very fast guys in PCA - especcially in the spec classes like GTC1 through GTC4 - even guys like Brent Martini run there at some races. SCCA has some VERY close competition.
Please comment without being dogmatic about it.
I know Bob Turgen runs both PCA and NASA. He has been pretty pleased, at least within GTS3 (and maybe GTS as a whole).
I race with BMWCCA and NASA. Tight competition in both as well.
And then what is defined as having "talent"? Finishing well? Checking mirrors? racing room?
06-29-2008, 10:09 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
JR, my point was does the 1850 include a dry or half fuel load car in his car. When my car was corner balanced, we used half a tank of fuel and that is where I gathered my initial car weight. You need to meet weight at the end of the race, so if your close, you need to run ballast to compensate for fuel usage.
As Eric has said, there are some really good drivers in NASA and PCA. The GTS cars run in much different conditions than PCA with alot of traffic to overcome from other brackets running. One of our PCA guys ran last year in NASA and was nose to tail for two races edging out for one win. The challenge is preparing a car for both PCA and NASA as a stock car in PCA is missing out on some of the "free additions" that NASA allows. You really need to run a "prepared car" in PCA to run NASA effectively.
06-29-2008, 10:29 PM
#53
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John H! Sorry to hear about your busted up 3.4, hopefully it isn't too bad. I am really thinking about making the Nationals run this year and have been looking forward to racing with you. Do what you can to get it in running order so we can go at it. Good luck buddy.
06-30-2008, 10:42 AM
#54
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Thanks Derek.
The car is at Dawe's shop now. I should have the news in a week or so. I don't see the Nationals happening this year without a miracle. I am bummed. Oh well, that's racing. We'll have to do something next year. Sounds like GTS4 will be a larger field this year. I'll definitely be up to watch, help out and drink beer.
The car is at Dawe's shop now. I should have the news in a week or so. I don't see the Nationals happening this year without a miracle. I am bummed. Oh well, that's racing. We'll have to do something next year. Sounds like GTS4 will be a larger field this year. I'll definitely be up to watch, help out and drink beer.
06-30-2008, 01:44 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Hey John -- Bum deal... did ya happen to catch that article in aug excellence (pg 147) about the car that had something setup that sensed gear shifter pos'n and would not let clutch out if in 'money shift'?
that's a hell of a treck over to Dawes... is he in new building? when I took my red car there end '06 to get back end fixed / modded you'd never guess that was a p-genius' shop and he was talking about moving.
that's a hell of a treck over to Dawes... is he in new building? when I took my red car there end '06 to get back end fixed / modded you'd never guess that was a p-genius' shop and he was talking about moving.
06-30-2008, 02:01 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
06-30-2008, 02:12 PM
#57
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I stopped getting excellence. I did not do a money shift this time. I think it was just wear and tear. I had not over-revved the motor for a long time prior to the rocker breaking. Bad news is I think there may have been part of the piston and likely some bearing material in the oil (initial report). The shop was interesting with many cars and most in what looked like major overhauls. I took it to the right place.
Is your car a G50 or are you using a 915? Sounds like a great set up. I am curious how it would know. When I had my tranny issue, it felt for the world I was in 5th. My problem was internal so I don't think some external doflicky on the shifter or linkage would have done any good.
do you have an ETT(estimated track time) yet?
Is your car a G50 or are you using a 915? Sounds like a great set up. I am curious how it would know. When I had my tranny issue, it felt for the world I was in 5th. My problem was internal so I don't think some external doflicky on the shifter or linkage would have done any good.
do you have an ETT(estimated track time) yet?
06-30-2008, 02:33 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
That's a pretty HUGE generalization to make. Im sure in some classes in PCA there is not much talent either. Just as in NASA. Actually, lets not even restrict to certain classes, but certain people. As with both series (and BMWCCA), there are people who just have money. They do a race school, get a license and start racing. Some are naturals, some are not.
I know Bob Turgen runs both PCA and NASA. He has been pretty pleased, at least within GTS3 (and maybe GTS as a whole).
I race with BMWCCA and NASA. Tight competition in both as well.
And then what is defined as having "talent"? Finishing well? Checking mirrors? racing room?
I know Bob Turgen runs both PCA and NASA. He has been pretty pleased, at least within GTS3 (and maybe GTS as a whole).
I race with BMWCCA and NASA. Tight competition in both as well.
And then what is defined as having "talent"? Finishing well? Checking mirrors? racing room?
I can see the comment about having more money than talent is probably more true in PCA. It amazes me the rigs that come to a club race! But there are some very fast guys in PCA despite that being true. I have never been to a NASA race.
I wanted to try a NASA race, but I don't know that I will have the opportunity before my Cup car is sold.
06-30-2008, 02:46 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Mark,
First, it's nice to see you here on Rennlist. We have a very wide contingent of PCA Club Racers here that could serve as a real gene pool for GTS Challenge. I know I plan to dive in as soon as I get my car back from the paint shop.
I've communicated with you before about this, but what have you seen with regard to successful ways to drive participation in GTS Challenge? Are there concerns/issues with classifications of cars? Are there scheduling issues between NASA, POC, BMW CCA Club Racing and PCA Club Racing that keep racers away from a combined series like GTS Challenge? If so, how can we get the various sanctioning bodies to perhaps be a bit more thoughtful about scheduling? I would be curious to know what has worked and what has not.
From a spectator's perspective, I would think that the upper classes in GTS Challenge would be quite fun to watch - with current M3's duking it out with 996/997 Cup Cars. And watching the Spec Beamers running against the various collection of 911/944/914 racers would also be fun.
From a racer's perspective, another similar venue (with 13/13 rules to respect the vehicles) and reasonably consistent classing and rule methodologies (so we are not required to change car configurations from one event to the next) would be appealing to many who would like to run more races per year without having to trailer/tow all over the country. Who knows, maybe NASA, PCA and BMW could even figure out how to run some joint events at a few tracks (yes, scheduling and scrutineering will require some coordination, but those challenges do not seem insurmountable).
I would be curious to hear others' perspective on this and, in particular, figure out how better participation could be driven here in Texas.
Toby
First, it's nice to see you here on Rennlist. We have a very wide contingent of PCA Club Racers here that could serve as a real gene pool for GTS Challenge. I know I plan to dive in as soon as I get my car back from the paint shop.
I've communicated with you before about this, but what have you seen with regard to successful ways to drive participation in GTS Challenge? Are there concerns/issues with classifications of cars? Are there scheduling issues between NASA, POC, BMW CCA Club Racing and PCA Club Racing that keep racers away from a combined series like GTS Challenge? If so, how can we get the various sanctioning bodies to perhaps be a bit more thoughtful about scheduling? I would be curious to know what has worked and what has not.
From a spectator's perspective, I would think that the upper classes in GTS Challenge would be quite fun to watch - with current M3's duking it out with 996/997 Cup Cars. And watching the Spec Beamers running against the various collection of 911/944/914 racers would also be fun.
From a racer's perspective, another similar venue (with 13/13 rules to respect the vehicles) and reasonably consistent classing and rule methodologies (so we are not required to change car configurations from one event to the next) would be appealing to many who would like to run more races per year without having to trailer/tow all over the country. Who knows, maybe NASA, PCA and BMW could even figure out how to run some joint events at a few tracks (yes, scheduling and scrutineering will require some coordination, but those challenges do not seem insurmountable).
I would be curious to hear others' perspective on this and, in particular, figure out how better participation could be driven here in Texas.
Toby
Toby -
Great to hear you are thinking of jumping in. I've been running GTS-3 with NASA this year and last and its been a blast. Besides the racing, those of us in class always pit together and they are a great group to run with. Let me know when you are ready and I'll introduce you to our series director and get you going. In the mean time, check out our local chat forum: http://texasgts.org/newforum/index.php
06-30-2008, 02:55 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Ive run in all 3 (and others as well)
Out west things are a bit different, but NASA (PRC or GTS), PCA and SCCA are all different, as far as quality of drivers and the organizations that put things on.
Ive migrated to SCCA ITE due to the closer racing for my car. dont get me wrong, ive had a ton of fun with PCA when they came to town, or POC, PRC, and even before that the BMW /Porsche challenge series (nasa) But, i have to say, with SCCA, the quality of drivers, overall is a little more experience. we are very very hard pressed to find any car to car contact, or even a full course caution. yet with PCA, POC and others, it seems there is always a few new guys that get themselves in trouble. There are top drivers in all of the organizations, so i dont think there are any better drivers in any of the groups. Certainly when Henzler or Pobst shows up for a PCA race, those are top guys, but Pobst has run races in SCCA ITE/SP as well.
I wish the GTS idea would take off out west, as currently, there is no draw for it at all . eversince BMW and Porsche Challenge split off to PRC and BMWCCA, they dont seem to mix it up much anymore, and its a real shame! That was some great racing!
mk
Out west things are a bit different, but NASA (PRC or GTS), PCA and SCCA are all different, as far as quality of drivers and the organizations that put things on.
Ive migrated to SCCA ITE due to the closer racing for my car. dont get me wrong, ive had a ton of fun with PCA when they came to town, or POC, PRC, and even before that the BMW /Porsche challenge series (nasa) But, i have to say, with SCCA, the quality of drivers, overall is a little more experience. we are very very hard pressed to find any car to car contact, or even a full course caution. yet with PCA, POC and others, it seems there is always a few new guys that get themselves in trouble. There are top drivers in all of the organizations, so i dont think there are any better drivers in any of the groups. Certainly when Henzler or Pobst shows up for a PCA race, those are top guys, but Pobst has run races in SCCA ITE/SP as well.
I wish the GTS idea would take off out west, as currently, there is no draw for it at all . eversince BMW and Porsche Challenge split off to PRC and BMWCCA, they dont seem to mix it up much anymore, and its a real shame! That was some great racing!
mk