2008 GTS Challenge
06-30-2008, 03:00 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
The weight is as the car comes off the track. (fuel, you , etc) vs the dyno sheet
as was said, torque is not used unless it exceeds the power value (hp vs torque in ft-lbs). this is to take away an advantage of a real flat HP curve which could drive up the average HP .
They removed the torque factor on lower torque engines due to it having little to do with average hp, and more to do with higher rpm rated engines. (little to do with any advantages of average hp vs an engine with equal hp/torque).
even though I was sucessful in helping to adjust the formula in GTS, they still kept the torque factor for high torque engines. It still unfairly pentalizes the BMW 325 stroker for example, which still has a normal hp curve shape, yet the cars power is averaged up because it is a low reving engine. (It has no hp advange over a normal gear spacing) But, I figured with the main error fixed, i would quit while I was ahead. (sorry stock engin'ed BMW 325s with 170ft-lbs and 120hp !!!)
mk
as was said, torque is not used unless it exceeds the power value (hp vs torque in ft-lbs). this is to take away an advantage of a real flat HP curve which could drive up the average HP .
They removed the torque factor on lower torque engines due to it having little to do with average hp, and more to do with higher rpm rated engines. (little to do with any advantages of average hp vs an engine with equal hp/torque).
even though I was sucessful in helping to adjust the formula in GTS, they still kept the torque factor for high torque engines. It still unfairly pentalizes the BMW 325 stroker for example, which still has a normal hp curve shape, yet the cars power is averaged up because it is a low reving engine. (It has no hp advange over a normal gear spacing) But, I figured with the main error fixed, i would quit while I was ahead. (sorry stock engin'ed BMW 325s with 170ft-lbs and 120hp !!!)
mk
.
JR, my point was does the 1850 include a dry or half fuel load car in his car. When my car was corner balanced, we used half a tank of fuel and that is where I gathered my initial car weight. You need to meet weight at the end of the race, so if your close, you need to run ballast to compensate for fuel usage.
As Eric has said, there are some really good drivers in NASA and PCA. The GTS cars run in much different conditions than PCA with alot of traffic to overcome from other brackets running. One of our PCA guys ran last year in NASA and was nose to tail for two races edging out for one win. The challenge is preparing a car for both PCA and NASA as a stock car in PCA is missing out on some of the "free additions" that NASA allows. You really need to run a "prepared car" in PCA to run NASA effectively.
JR, my point was does the 1850 include a dry or half fuel load car in his car. When my car was corner balanced, we used half a tank of fuel and that is where I gathered my initial car weight. You need to meet weight at the end of the race, so if your close, you need to run ballast to compensate for fuel usage.
As Eric has said, there are some really good drivers in NASA and PCA. The GTS cars run in much different conditions than PCA with alot of traffic to overcome from other brackets running. One of our PCA guys ran last year in NASA and was nose to tail for two races edging out for one win. The challenge is preparing a car for both PCA and NASA as a stock car in PCA is missing out on some of the "free additions" that NASA allows. You really need to run a "prepared car" in PCA to run NASA effectively.
06-30-2008, 10:42 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
Is your car a G50 or are you using a 915? Sounds like a great set up. I am curious how it would know. When I had my tranny issue, it felt for the world I was in 5th. My problem was internal so I don't think some external doflicky on the shifter or linkage would have done any good.
do you have an ETT(estimated track time) yet?
For the over-rev stopping gizmo, I guess it detected shifter pos'n, had something to detect speed and there was this arm thing that could hold back clutch from returning if speed exceeded max speed for that gear. It must have had something to stop you from pounding gas to floor with clutch in too.
as far as ETT, I'm really not sure. I really want to get at least one event in this year so I can see if there's any major issues, and Nov Summit Pt is kind of the end point. I really need to put together a 'wrapup' list now with time estimates for everything left.
07-01-2008, 04:13 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Ive run in all 3 (and others as well)
Out west things are a bit different, but NASA (PRC or GTS), PCA and SCCA are all different, as far as quality of drivers and the organizations that put things on.
Ive migrated to SCCA ITE due to the closer racing for my car. dont get me wrong, ive had a ton of fun with PCA when they came to town, or POC, PRC, and even before that the BMW /Porsche challenge series (nasa) But, i have to say, with SCCA, the quality of drivers, overall is a little more experience. we are very very hard pressed to find any car to car contact, or even a full course caution. yet with PCA, POC and others, it seems there is always a few new guys that get themselves in trouble. There are top drivers in all of the organizations, so i dont think there are any better drivers in any of the groups. Certainly when Henzler or Pobst shows up for a PCA race, those are top guys, but Pobst has run races in SCCA ITE/SP as well.
I wish the GTS idea would take off out west, as currently, there is no draw for it at all . eversince BMW and Porsche Challenge split off to PRC and BMWCCA, they dont seem to mix it up much anymore, and its a real shame! That was some great racing!
mk
Out west things are a bit different, but NASA (PRC or GTS), PCA and SCCA are all different, as far as quality of drivers and the organizations that put things on.
Ive migrated to SCCA ITE due to the closer racing for my car. dont get me wrong, ive had a ton of fun with PCA when they came to town, or POC, PRC, and even before that the BMW /Porsche challenge series (nasa) But, i have to say, with SCCA, the quality of drivers, overall is a little more experience. we are very very hard pressed to find any car to car contact, or even a full course caution. yet with PCA, POC and others, it seems there is always a few new guys that get themselves in trouble. There are top drivers in all of the organizations, so i dont think there are any better drivers in any of the groups. Certainly when Henzler or Pobst shows up for a PCA race, those are top guys, but Pobst has run races in SCCA ITE/SP as well.
I wish the GTS idea would take off out west, as currently, there is no draw for it at all . eversince BMW and Porsche Challenge split off to PRC and BMWCCA, they dont seem to mix it up much anymore, and its a real shame! That was some great racing!
mk
07-01-2008, 04:43 PM
#64
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Wow, this thread has taken several paths since i started it. I just want to comment on a few things brought up in this thread.
Driver quality ability between clubs: Considering the fact that 95% of GTS drivers come from the other clubs, (BMWCCA, POC,PCA, SCCA there really isn't any point in the discussion.
GTS Classifications. For the first two years, i tried to write rules that would make cars from other clubs competitive. In 2004 I made major rule changes, moving to the weight
ower ratios. This allows all cars to be competitive if the driver chooses to do so. The proof is in the numbers. Looking at results and lap times from dozens of GTS races, you will find very close competition at the top of all 5 GTS classes where those classes are well attended. In the great lakes region, it is not uncommon to have 4 GTS3 cars and 5 GTS2 cars finish within a second of each other.
GTS on the West coast: Unfortunately, GTS is not embraced by the CA NASA leadership like it is every where else in the country. I've tried, but it's difficult to do from Pennsylvania. If anyone out west wants to pick up the GTS banner and run with it, just let me know.
Mark
Mark Barr
GTS Challenge National Coordinator
www.gtschallenge.com
Driver quality ability between clubs: Considering the fact that 95% of GTS drivers come from the other clubs, (BMWCCA, POC,PCA, SCCA there really isn't any point in the discussion.
GTS Classifications. For the first two years, i tried to write rules that would make cars from other clubs competitive. In 2004 I made major rule changes, moving to the weight
ower ratios. This allows all cars to be competitive if the driver chooses to do so. The proof is in the numbers. Looking at results and lap times from dozens of GTS races, you will find very close competition at the top of all 5 GTS classes where those classes are well attended. In the great lakes region, it is not uncommon to have 4 GTS3 cars and 5 GTS2 cars finish within a second of each other. GTS on the West coast: Unfortunately, GTS is not embraced by the CA NASA leadership like it is every where else in the country. I've tried, but it's difficult to do from Pennsylvania. If anyone out west wants to pick up the GTS banner and run with it, just let me know.
Mark
Mark Barr
GTS Challenge National Coordinator
www.gtschallenge.com
07-02-2008, 05:08 AM
#65
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Mark,
Any input on GTS Challenge scucess here in Texas?
Toby
Any input on GTS Challenge scucess here in Texas?
Toby
