Larry Herman

True, and in context with the thread, that kind of "off" is not a result of (or proof of) driving aggressively and testing the limits.

Mikelly

In the most recent 4 year period of DE driving (Before that was motorcycles while I took a break from cars) I've only had one off. It was summer 2005 and I was on cold hoosiers at VIR... Rear came around on me hard at T10 at about 100mph. I have the clip posted on youtube...

Early Apex and cold tires... That was DUMB!!!

Mike

mglobe

There is a good discussion of spins and testing the limits in Carl Lopez's "Going Faster!". A few quotes:

"If you have to be going backwards to know you made a mistake, you're not too smart" -- Skip Barber

"You've got to take small steps to find out where the limit is. You have to learn that fine line of where the car starts to break loose and learn to control it. But to spin to find the limit? Not on a damned oval, you don't" -- Danny Sullivan

"When Rick (Rick Mears) retired in 1993 he had run 15 years at Indianoapolis, qualified on the pole ... six times, was on the front row eleven times, won the race four times, and in all that time, spun and hit the wall twice -- both times because of a mechanical failure"

"Spinning is evidence of failure to accomplish the most basic role of a race driver: keeping the car on the road"

The last one sounds like it was written by VR.

RedlineMan

Sounds like required reading to me. Then, we run into the problem of READING COMPREHENSION!!!!!

mglobe

I missed this comment from earlier. Thanks Dave. Actually, in both of my offs, while I was unhappy that I went off the track, I do feel that following my mistakes, I "corrected" by making good decisions. I realized that I was past the limit of what either the car or myself was capable off, and that simply driving the car off the track was safer than trying to save it. I've had other cases where I've broken loose, and chosen a save as the best course of action. Both scenarios are "failures" followed by corrections of one sort or another.

It probably makes some sense in analyzing one's driving to separate spins from a save that involves droving off the track in a controlled manner. Both are good to avoid, but they are certainly different.

JBH

Hmmm...I thought the numbers would be higher.

I spun on LR twice, Watkins Glen once (instructor wanted me to go faster), Pocono once, Mid-Ohio once, Portland almost, VIR full course twice (nascar practicing trailbraking and rollercoaster carrying too much speed into the righthander), VIR south course twice (both times turn 2 on a wet track), VIR North course once at the uphill. So that's 10 (that I remember).

I caused damage only once - in my FF on VIR South when wet track + wet grass took me into the tires off turn two. I broke the left rear upright.

Barfly

Had an off during my SRF race at Sebring last month. Too early and too much throttle at turn 5 on the last lap (at 5:40).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XP2bM7h4zI

_________________________
Jason

Circuit Motorsports

That wasn't an off. That was just using the natural rumble strips as well...

SundayDriver

No, I would most certainly not agree. There is no behavior where I would resort to calling someone else "retarded" - perhaps foolish or other things, but not that very offensive name. As long as you insist on using that term, given that most of us know that someone on this board has a close relative who has mental challenges and is highly offended by that term, I am not going to discuss this further.

Barfly

True.

Veloce Raptor

Huh?

Wow, way to dodge the issue by focusing exclusively on semantics.

RedlineMan

I think all can see, and should realize, that the use of the term "retarded" was simply a poor choice, particularly if one were inclined to apply it beyond mere flippance. The point is still a good one, if perhaps not well made.

Now back to our regular programming, please?

RedlineMan

Hmmm...

Seems you've taken care of that, Jeffrey.

DaveM993

As I do not race, my opinion is that any "off" resulting from anything other than mechanical failure or fluids from another car (that can't be avoided) in a DE is a "failure"...not a learning experience. In our club, if you have two in a weekend, you are done. I don't think anyone would argue that point. However, I do use the skid pad to learn the limit of control and car dynamics at the edge of traction..and spins are frequent.

As for racing, I am not qualified to opine.

Robert Henriksen

I dunno - it looks pretty obvious to me what's going on.

------------------

and now: