mitch236

One too many! Turn 14 at Sebring I hit the inside wall totalling my 997 GT-3. Prior to that I hadn't spun in nearly two years. I don't think you have to spin to find the limit. As was said before, if you approach the limit in controlled steps, you will have indicators that you are too fast before you lose it. The guys who regularly spin are taking too big a bite. I am not counting the uncontrollable factors like mechanical failures or fluids on track etc.,...

late apex

Well said...

wanna911

I think some translation is needed here, I dont think anyone said regular offs is ok or an indication of speed. But occasional offs when pushing the limits is to be expected IMO, especially when we are all making tiny mistakes every lap, it's just human error.

RedlineMan

Hey;

Pay attention to the two laps with respect to your turn in point. I'll wait......

...OK, first lap you kind of drifted in early compared to the second lap where you waited till the appropriate time and then TURNED. What you created was a situation where the highest level of "turning stress" came at or just beyond the apex. So too did you lengthen the turning portion of the corner. You still had your wheel turned at the apex. With better timing on the second lap, you focussed the vast majority of "turning stress" AT the turn in point, and then were passing that left hand apex in a staighter line with the wheel straighter.

I see a lot of guys drift into the left hander early with a lot of speed, only to have to brake fairly hard and really manage the car heavily to make the right hander. That is completely backwards. In a two turn complex followed by a straight, it's OK to get in fast, but not at the expense of exit speed.

By being patient and turning later for the left, you can then set up a line that is on the extreme left hand side of the track, and go straight for a moment. Then, if you are again patient, you can make the right hander with a straighter exit line and tremendous exit speed. It also mitigates the "landing" at the bottom too!

My verbal sequence for those two turns sounds like; "Past the cone. Wait... TURN, hold left. Wait... Turn/Floor it! I run over a lot of faster cars there.

nkhalidi

Oh yeah, I had a good off at my first-ever track event with PCA in 1999, at Sebring, in the rain. My instructor was a guy in his 70s who demonstrated the proper line by driving the entire track in 5th gear in the 993tt I was driving that day.

I showed him I wasn't a complete idiot by shifting properly and learning the line decently well, and by the afternoon he was itching for a PSM/ABS/AWD demonstration by prodding me to carry more speed through turns and brake later. I had no idea about the limits of the car, so I dumbly obliged him despite pouring rain. Sure enough, I entered T16 way too hot, lost the rear, overcorrected, lost the rear the OTHER way (don'cha love 911s?), and went off into the grass backward. Very exciting.

johnclay

Thanks for the thoughts John. There is clearly a difference in lines. The second one is my typical line, although I've never felt completely comfortable with my line through there. I head down the hill half throttle, which seems rather unatural in the 944. Learned from the first lap - concentrate even when you think you are taking it easy.

TRAKCAR

I agree with the flying Fin, I think I push the limits of my car and myself (Both pretty low ) and I do drop a wheel off here and there, but never spun out to the point that I did not control the car anymore.

The reason is that as soon as I feel the corner is not going to work, I find the point of least resitance and go for it. I do look for those places in the previous laps and I have gone there every time, about 4-5 times over the last 4 years never damaging the car.

Now, I am not counting the one time that my brakes gave out without any warning going into the hairpin at homestead, that was just luck..

TRAKCAR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPyiE51EZgI Here is the proof.

Mike in Chi

I'm packing today for Sebring.

I came across the t-shirt for the 2004 48 Hours of Sebring, an advanced DE and Race weekend.

On the back is a quote from Mario Andretti:

"If everything seems under control, you aren't going fast enough."

No doubt the organizers meant that for the racers.

Streak

John,

The critical moment in the video to observe is at the 46-50 second mark

Flying Finn

That wasn't just luck.
You had the sense to steer away from hitting the back of the car and also sense to go right, not left where he might've hit you and also when you went of, you didn't try to brake and instead let it go and went straight forward. Good job!


Luck often plays the part but you can help. In your case, many would've just tried to stand on the brakes and go straight.

TRAKCAR

uummm, I was pumping the center pedal like hell (I do have ABS), but there was nothing there, so there was not much more to do than wait for the M3 to turn in before I get there. If he would not have, I would have tried squeezing in between the wall and the M3.

I think when people go off, it is often not so much their ability to drive, but their ability to stay cool, relaxed and focussed..
I always tell my students to check gauges, relax, stop squeezing the steering wheel and breathe on the straights, for that reason.

I have seen quite a few guys go off, just because they keep watching in the mirror (That's the problem of having a ****ty car that is still not THAT slow), or get too caught up and exited, like the competition Ferrari that hit me at Homestead; He hits me pretty hard for no reason, (I think he got on the marbles tryin to get on my inside.) He stalls, finally gets it going, does not even look at me and takes of like crazy with a flat tire and some billowing from the car! Never got an excuse or anything either by the way.

We were not racing, just Nasa TT?? Guys like that crash all the time, because they lose their cool and go stupid.

When you are relaxed and make a misstake you might have the time to think where you want to go or even choose to drive off and do not, or the least amount of damage.
I think this is why I have not spun the car yet.

I think it is often the guys fighting the car till the end that hit the wall most often, sometimes very good drivers that just got tires at the end of the day, (Or like Winterfest at the end of 4 days!) or even just to caught up in trying to stay in front or stay with another car.

Having said this , I will get my turn one day to go off big, or hit something... We all do, or will eventually.

Nothing pains me like seeing someones car getting damaged, and I always realize it could have been me, so I still get as much safety as I can afford!

Flying Finn

That's the thing, even when things get screwed up, if you keep your "cool", you usually end up better.

Ever seen a Rally driver to have "off"? I've seen many times and those guys don't just stay cool, they usually keep the throttle down, steer between the trees, then hop over the ditch and fight their way back to the road, truly amazing some times.

elanderholm

how many wheels?
1-2 wheels probably once a day at an HPDE.

4 Wheels a few times a year.

007DT

"If everything seems under control, you aren't going fast enough."

I couldn't agree more....

I'm not proud to say I can officially post on this thread, but as of yesterday, I can...

A small group of 12 rented the Talladega GP yesterday. We had a great time and the small group let us get alot of wheel time. So it was the end of the day and I'm pushing it because I had just given a friend my timer to see how "fast" I was going. Lap 1: 109 Lap 2 108 Lap 3: (Pic Below)